For 10-12 years, it's been me. All I'm saying is could it be possible it's her? And if it is, if she loved me, why wouldn't she go to the DR to try to see if everything is ok?
Sure, it's possible it's her. It's more likely both of you. But nobody here is going to say, "yep, it's her. Oh well, that $ucks." We are all going to say that whether she carries some blame or responsibility is irrelevant because she is not the one who is here trying to figure this out. You are. You can't make her change. And what if we did all say, "yep, this is all her fault"? How would that help? It wouldn't. No matter how many people agree with you that yes, this is her fault, if YOUR W doesn't see it that way, what good is that?
So like we have said . . . change yourself. Read DR. Read SSM. Read the other books that have been recommended to you. And start changing YOU. Not for her, or the way she wants you to be, but the way YOU want to be.
me: 44 XH: 42 M 11 years D10 and S8 Bomb drop 9/27/13 D final 7/1/14
Sure, it's possible it's her. It's more likely both of you. But nobody here is going to say, "yep, it's her. Oh well, that $ucks." We are all going to say that whether she carries some blame or responsibility is irrelevant because she is not the one who is here trying to figure this out. You are. You can't make her change. And what if we did all say, "yep, this is all her fault"? How would that help? It wouldn't. No matter how many people agree with you that yes, this is her fault, if YOUR W doesn't see it that way, what good is that?
Absolutely brilliant response melissag!
Aaron Taylor, What does help is that you dig really deep to acknowledge your own fault, flaws, actions or inaction in your M. It will be very clear to you if you hit rock bottom, at least it does for me.
Hereon...
You will learn why W decides to leave the M. Imagine someone trapped in a loveless M. That's how she felt. It may not be your reality, but it is true for her.
You will also learn to forgive yourself and stop short on blame-shifting.
M35 XW34 D5 D4 M 6years T 10years Bomb 5/2013 Joint Petition signed 6/2013 Moved out end of 8/2013 Court Hearing of Joint Petition 9/2013 D finalized in 3 months - no news yet
You didn't acknowledge me so I'm assuming you took offense to what I said about getting your self esteem back. That's okay. But you're going to find out that while many people will be on your side it isn't going to help you to get your W back.
"My fear is that this will not make a difference. She will come up with something else after I get in shape and look better. That's what has happened the last 20 years."
That's all on you. It sounded like you were the one who went back on your changes. The point is that changes need to become permanent. If you revert back to old bad habits, then the person you're with isn't going to trust you the next time you say "I'll change". Change yourself to become a better person and make those changes for life.
"do this... I do it...it changes for a season then goes back to or actually worse than what it was. Then repeats."
Are you talking about her or you?
"So, I'm NOT losing weight and getting in shape FOR HER, but FOR ME! I do want to get healthy....for me, for my kids and to be around longer."
Which is good. However the workout will help your self-esteem also.
"For 10-12 years, it's been me. All I'm saying is could it be possible it's her?"
You said you backslid on your changes. It doesn't sound like it's all her. It's always a little of both sides. It just depends how much or how little you've kept the changes going.
"And if it is, if she loved me, why wouldn't she go to the DR to try to see if everything is ok?"
Because she doesn't think there's anything wrong and you can't control her to make her see that YOU think there's something wrong.
"Instead, she just settles and says, this is me, I'm not you and don't try to make me you."
She's right. You're trying to control her behavior and thoughts. What you don't get is that you CAN change her thinking once you stop trying to control.
"To me, if she came down with cancer or was in a car wreck, this would be different. IMO-those are things she can't help. This, I believe she can help IF SHE WANTED TO but I believe she just doesn't want to help it. Having sex maybe on average 2 times per quarter is NOT normal."
To who? It's not up to you to tell her what YOU think it's normal. AND when you say that to her, you're essentially telling her that there's something wrong with her. You don't like it when you think she's saying that about you, so why would you think she likes it when you think that about her?
"It's not so much "self-worth" type of need as it is an actual human being who is supposed to be my wife to DESIRE me. Why is that so hard?"
Because it is HER CHOICE to desire you or not. It is hard especially in a M. YOU just don't see it. And again, you're trying to force her. She's not disrespecting you. She just isn't feeling it. There are many times that you probably didn't want to do something she asked of you. You might think they are small things but to her, they may be big deals. Same here. She doesn't see the lack of sex as a big deal. And the more you pressure her, the less inclined she will want to do it.
You say that you tell her about what YOUR physical needs are, etc. and she told you to go ahead but just not in an intimate way, and then you got upset about that. That's all control on your part. You EXPECT her to have sex with you and then you EXPECT her to enjoy it. It's all one sided.
"With DESIRE comes CONNECTION. With CONNECTION comes security...security gives birth to self-confidence & self-worth in my opinion."
You're wrong. "self" confidence and "self" worth are exactly that. They depend on YOUR self.
"Happiness? No, I can't rely on her for happiness and wouldn't. That's a choice."
Same goes for confidence and worth.
"I talked to a therapist today... I liked him...now I'm going to see if she would go see him on her own and see if this works."
As others have mentioned before, DO NOT suggest this to her. It is again you telling her that there's something wrong with her. There isn't. She has just made a choice that you disagree with. She has a right to it same as you have a right to your choices. Respect that. When you start understanding that, you'll REALLY understand her and can actually hear what she's trying to tell you. From there you will be able to figure out what to do to get things on track.
But if the only voice you choose to hear is your own, then she won't be heard.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
You haven't acknowledged anything I've posted to you either -- and that's fine, if my input isn't helpful or isn't connecting with you I will spend my time elsewhere. You've got to find guidance you connect with and I understand that.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Hey EVERYONE.. it's not intentional that I don't acknowledge everyone who's said something. I've tried to say thank you...I just cant get on here as often as I'd like.
So please...accuray, MrBond, planet, mellisag, jp787 and anyone I forgot.. THANK YOU! Seriously. You didn't have to make time to say anything and I appreciate you.
I'm going to stay off of here for a while so that I can read the books recommended to me and try to learn.
I disagree about the counselor. She and I both previously agreed in 2 or 3 different discussions that we wanted to go see someone. I took the initiative and simply met the guy to see if he had the basic foundation (christian etc..) that we would want. She's agreed to go next week and see how she feels about him. This is a combined relationship that will take BOTH of us changing things in order to improve.
Also, I don't know you guys.. I haven't even been on this forum for a week yet. So, I'm not going to take "offense". I may disagree but who has time to take offense?
Thanks again, I'll check back in for posts and updates.
You may disagree, but I've been here over 5 years and I don't think I've seen a case where a C actually helped unless the WAS is the one who actually goes on there own initiative without the LBS.
"I took the initiative ..."
Still controlling. Let her go and seek help if she wants to but let her be the one to initiate. If she doesn't, then you know she wasn't serious.
"This is a combined relationship that will take BOTH of us changing things in order to improve."
Start reading DB and DR ASAP. You are very wrong about this. It will take ONE of you to change to make things improve.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
AT, each situation is different, so take the advice you feel is right. I do want to warn you of one pitfall of MC. My H and I went, and I am embarrassed to admit (but will in hopes this will help someone else) that I went into counseling trying to get the counselor to say I was right. There is more to MC then just a willingness to go, or wanting to have a better relationship. You both have to drop your long held positions and beliefs, drop any care about being "right," and be willing to really listen to each other and accept the other's feelings as valid. And that takes a lot.
I hope that you are both willing to do this, and that MC is helpful. If you find it is not, do come back here, because, despite what you may think now, you *can* change your M on your own.
Good luck!! ,
me: 44 XH: 42 M 11 years D10 and S8 Bomb drop 9/27/13 D final 7/1/14
M46,W41 D16,D18 M22,T25 BD 11/12 W moved out 01/13 Piecing 10/13 Divorced 01/15 "Whether you worry or not has no affect on the outcome. But, moving forward, letting go, and making changes can." UrWorthy
Right after BD, I also "took the initiative" to seek MC. In retrospect, it was a mistake....at least for my sitch. I did the same thing that mellisag did. I wanted to be proven right, and I spent my time...actually we BOTH spent our time, expressing our issues with the other person. That was partly to blame for the counselor we chose, who was just as happy to provide a smooth transition towards separation. She was definitely not solution based or pro-marriage, even though she touted herself as such. Combine that with a wife who already had one foot out the door, and you can imagine the outcome. I think our scenario is VERY common. When I look back, not only was my wife not willing to work on it, I don't even know if I literally knew how to work on it either. This may be a hard pill to swallow AT, but I am going to tell you something. I don't think you are fully capable to know how either, at least not right now. I hear a LOT of blame in you. If you don't address that on your own, It very well may be a recipe for disaster in MC.
you sure come across not as MrBond but MrKnowitAll
I've been married for over 20 years. I've seen first hand dozens of times where counseling has worked. Do they always, of course not, but that's better than doing nothing.
Taking the initiative is NOT controlling, it's following through on a commitment BOTH of us made to each other in order for us to move forward in our marriage. NOT doing it would only result in another failed commitment we made to each other and would cause more friction. It would be controlling if I just did it without her request or without her being a part of the discussion, but she said she wants to see one as well so relax.
Also, you put a LOT of stock in DB and DR and say I'm wrong about this being a combined relationship. Are you kidding me? That doesn't even make sense! Makes me NOT want to read the books if that's the stance they take. NATURALLY if ONE person changes the other reacts to that change which is also change. Duh! If things were going well, then NO ONE would need to change anything.
I realize that I don't have it all together. I need to change, I need to do some things different which is why I joined this forum and am seeing a counselor. A by-product of me changing in our relationship will cause her to change as well and vice versa. I don't understand why that's hard to comprehend.
I joined this forum for ideas, support and ways I can improve. I felt myself sinking into a place of giving up and not fighting anymore. I didn't join this forum because I read the end all to be all DR or DB books. I'm sure they are great, but let's not put all our hope in these books.
I believe it takes all kinds of tools (forum, counselor, friends, prayer, books, etc.) to improve your life in any area...not just marriage.
