Barrybran II - Six Weeks In

[Lostforwords]

B- Good job on the sex...keep it low key, no big deal, and go with the flow she she dictates. Like fly said, feel her needs.

Kudo's to your wife....You two have finally really addressed the skeleton in the closet. As I noted before, your previous actions had never been addressed as you left for work. A key point in those articles as you mentioned "spouses who are unwilling to open up about their affairs"....and then she gave you a snapshot about how it made her feel. That is good stuff on her part....real good stuff.

As for timelines....Those are for project managers and politicians, not for marriages. You asked a magic eight ball question about predicting the future based upon the past which inevitably leads to expectations.

Don't think about timelines...think about how you are making changes in each part of your life and how you will continue to change and grow yourself. True DB'ing in my opinion isn't a quick fix to marital problems, it is a different way to view and live life. You keep doing it after the problems are gone and don't stop....or else there is a good chance you will end up right back here.

[Barrybran]

Thanks guys. 2s2q, I think she's doing her due diligence by considering all options equally. I'm not counting my chickens by any means as she has explicitly said she has no feelings for me. We discussed the future more as an "if we get there things won't be the same basis" which was an eye opener for me as well as a bit of a guide.

LFW, now that I actually understand my wife I feel a great amount of respect for her, not only for not throwing me out but by holding on as long as she could, by keeping the door open for reconciliation while not pushing it open herself, by researching relationship topics and most importantly, by talking and listening. Don't get me wrong, it's my job to listen right now, but she has asked me things and taken them on board and while there are no guarantees, I am very grateful.

I have taken note of her demeanour and while she has no feelings for me and she's dealt with migraines the past three days, we've got along wonderfully well having spoken in depth and calmly about our situation as well as spending time together, laughing and plenty of eye contact. We even got into a play fight tonight which I know is a good sign. The hard part is that she doesn't trust me so whilst the signs are promising there will be emotional hurdles for her to cross and I'll just have to bide my time.

[Barrybran]

Today has been a pretty good day. A lot of talk between my wife and I about our situation both through text message and face-to-face conversation.

I learned more about what separation means to her from wanting to punish me by sleeping with/dating someone else, then deciding not to and following her current path, to ruling out third parties while she works out what she wants and continuing her reading about recovering from infidelity. The gist of things was that she's definitely not interested in me as a husband right now but she wants to keep other people out, read as much as she can and explore our friendship until she can make an informed decision on what she wants to do. She currently feels as though our separation is a "break" rather than a path to divorce.

She also told me that she hasn't been going and seeing friends as much as I thought she had but rather going down to the park or driving around town to clear her head.

She also told me that she's enjoyed the past few days. We've discussed things in ways we've never done so, we've had an enormous amount of fun talking, playing video games and having sex and we're more playful around each other. She said again that she feels that a "weight has been lifted" and she's enjoying spending time with me without tension while feeling free to talk about whatever knowing we can discuss things now.

She also allowed me to give her a back rub and have a lay down on our bed next to her (she's been sleeping in my daughter's bed for the past six weeks).

The strangest part of the day was when she asked me if I had any sexual fantasies. I'm 30 so I'm young enough to be able to do pretty much anything but old enough to have kids and commitments. Basically, my young man fantasies are long gone. I told her this and that my current fantasies revolved around particular acts, places and frequency as opposed to anything too out there. She said this was boring which wasn't an answer I expected. Our sex life has been hampered by my infidelities as well as a relationship I had when we had broken up the first time and the frequency and adventure had gone. I asked her if she had any fantasies and she said she had a 2M-1F threesome in her younger days and lots of sex (both of which I already knew) but that she would still like to try a 2F-1M threesome. I said that I couldn't consider it unless she came to me with it if/when we reconcile in the future. Other than this she said she didn't know what she wanted sexually other than she wants more spontaneity. Not much I can do with this information at the moment but it's nice to know that she has higher expectations than what I've experienced so far.

So all in all, I feel that it was a pretty good day, especially when my wife revealed that she's enjoyed the past couple of days with me. Tomorrow is another day so we'll see what happens.

[FlyOnTheWall]

I certainly cant tell you how to live your life, or what kind of marriage you want in the future, but:

I asked her if she had any fantasies and she said she had a 2M-1F threesome in her younger days and lots of sex (both of which I already knew) but that she would still like to try a 2F-1M threesome. I said that I couldn't consider it unless she came to me with it if/when we reconcile

This is possibly opening Pandora's Box. It either destroys what trust is left, or it becomes so much fun, that it becomes the norm instead of the exception. Be careful what you wish for. This is walking a very dangerous line. I've seen this a few times, and the 2x the marriage ENDED FAST AND FURIOS, the other time, the marriage became open/swapping.

[Barrybran]

Yeah, after what I've done, I'm not really keen on the idea myself. I'd rather focus on building a healthy sex life with my wife. I did express my lack of interest in her idea but said it would have to come from her well down the track if/when things are good.

[Lostforwords]

One of the biggest collapses of relationships I see here and in real life....Is the drastic reduction in communication. Whether it is about sex, kids, finances, or even just the weather.....It is a constant theme.

In your situation, you felt unappreciated and ignored....So you found some one else to talk with. The irony being is that your wife appears to have wanted to be talking with you, but it wasn't happening. Now that you are spooked (and of course she is too) the lines of communication have been opened up.....So what does that tell you about moving forward?

I am going to share I thought I keep in my head for all communication. Whether it is the kids, friends, or business......from the 7 habits...

First understand, then be understood......Making that thought an integral part of my communication pattern has changed how I interact with people and made talks a lot more rewarding.

As for opening your marriage.....I have no recommendation. This is what I will share, I have known about 15 couples over the years that went that route. The pattern was the same for all;

-Nice open and honest first time
-start of hidden convo's
-start of hidden meetings
-eventual divorce

In every single one I have known of. Now that is just my experience and there may be some great open marriages, but IMHO that course is just a band aid covering a bigger issue.

[Barrybran]

Thanks LFW. I am loving the new way my wife and I communicate. It's only 7am here but my wife is texting me (from the next room over) about potential red flags she noticed yesterday that she wouldn't have brought up in the past. And it's all little things that I've just done in the course of my day that are innocent and yet I've not realised they could be construed as hiding something. It's an eye opener and I'm glad my wife is telling me of these concerns.

As for opening up the marriage, I accidentally omitted the fact my wife fantasy about a threesome is just that, a fantasy. She voiced the same concerns as me about trust and said it would not be a thought unless she could trust me. The first time she brought it up I read up on threesomes and marriage and I read that boundaries had to be put in place. It's not something I think will honestly come up but I know if it does it will come from a place of trust within her and will be dealt with properly. That's not to say that we'll ever go ahead with it but I think we've both learned our lessons.

[2stubborn2quit]

His is awesome stuff BB. Nothing to add, just giving you props on the progress

[Barrybran]

Journaling:

My run of good days with my wife may have ended. Tonight, she went to bed, did more reading and quizzed me about my infidelities. No problem with that. I messed up and I have to face the music. It's hard though. I'm not writing this looking for sympathy but to express my thoughts and feelings in a safe place so I don't say something stupid to my wife. I'm currently feeling upset that my wife has gone to sleep angry and upset while also frustrated because I'm trying to answer my wife's questions in the best way possible. I found it extremely hard to validate tonight knowing she was asking about a specific time frame and our recent discussions have unearthed that we've had problems throughout our relationship.

My infidelities occurred just 4.5 months after we got married. I'm an arsehole, I know. My wife has let me know and I believe it myself. This was the time she was focused on tonight. Our problems however trace back to when we first started seeing problems in our relationship back in January 2011, 18 months before we married and two years before my infidelities.

I feel for my wife because she deserves better. In saying that, I am that better. This isn't me blowing smoke up my own rear end but knowing who my wife is and bring prepared to learn who my wife will become. It also means becoming a better version of me, someone my wife CAN love instead of who she thought she loved. I'm a different person than I was 12 months ago and I'm even a different person to who I was six weeks ago. I know it's a marathon and I know my wife will have bad patches but tonight was the first time I didn't know how to deal with things.

I've always been a big picture guy. Since coming to this site I discovered that while my infidelities were selfish and hurtful, I also discovered that it was a symptom to bigger problems. I hope this makes sense because I understand it very well. My problem was that I didn't understand my wife, didn't take the time to try to understand my wife and I neglected her needs. All of this preceded her neglecting my needs and all of this preceded my cheating. It may be illogical or unthoughtful to some to think this way but I'm a cause and effect person; if I treat my wife this way she will respond that way. Show her love and she shows me love. Show her selfishness and her love is withdrawn. That's what happened.

I feel that all of the past two years is one big puzzle that fits together. To focus only my infidelities, while perfectly understandable, is to focus on a small part of the problem. By no means am I saying my cheating is insignificant, just that it's part of something bigger. I know my wife will look at my infidelities as an individual item. She has that right and she is right. It is the part that stings the most to her. And it is stinging me now that I can't answer her questions in an appropriate way. I feel that the bigger picture explains the little one and yet my opinion right now is not important.

My wife will wake up angry tomorrow and she has a full day of work ahead of her. I hate that she has to go through that and this situation. I know I have to just stay the path, be patient, answer her questions and show her I'm worth building a new relationship with. I hope I figure out how to answer her questions in a way that makes sense to her without glossing over the reasons that got us there. I don't know how I'll do that but I'll just see how the next couple of days go.

Vent over.

I really want my wife to have a good day tomorrow. Thank you for reading this.

[Barrybran]

Alrighty, last night was the vent, today comes the questions.

My wife has recently started asking about my infidelities. She is focused on the infidelities themselves which from what I've read, makes sense. Someone previously described me as a WAS who became then LBS and I feel that this is true as I checked out of our relationship at the time of my cheating and now my wife has checked out.

For me, my feelings are a major part of this period. I made the wrong choices but I have trouble separating the feelings from the acts as I felt alone and neglected by my wife. In my mind, to separate my feelings from the acts is to tell half the story.

What I'd like to know is if anyone feels I should concentrate on just my wife's concerns and address the infidelities themselves or should I be telling the whole story (what I did, why I did it, how I felt, etc.).

My wife is trying very hard and I can see this however I know that she is more focused on only one part of the story instead of the whole story. Any thoughts would be appreciated.