my wife left, but still lives with me

[tough spot]

Wife got home and asked how my visit went. I stonewalled a bit, knowing she really only wanted to know if i could stay there.

Then she told me she got approved for a new credit card, suggesting we could shift some balances around at 0% apr to lower expenses. In addition, started the ball rolling on possible getting her student loans reduced. All in order to overcome my financial objections and get me gone! Or so my pessimistic mind perceives.

I don't know why she is so against the idea of leaving the kids in the house and her and i staying at our parents on non custody days. I plan on not discussing....see what she comes up with if anything.

[FloydMan]

Hey pal, do not continue financial ties with her of any kind. Stay away from new loans and credit with her. She is thinking ahead. Trust me. I got sucked in and this is still being litigated more than a year and a half later. Cover this with your lawyer in detail ASAP. Leave nothing out. Financial ties must be cut. At least for now. It will mess with your net propert division. Do nothing joint from this point on. I am paying the price big time now. I did not listen to some others who had been through it and trusted. Got robbed. I was so stupid I co-signed a car loan believing she was genuine in her working things out. Lots of other messes too. If you are separating, or are already... You must separate finances. It may create tension you want to avoid right now and she may act offended that you don't trust her but it will save a lot more grief. Also, if she really consulted with a lawyer,then she would have been told the same thing. So beware. Please.
I feel so bad for you right now. But you need to protect yourself too. I screwed that up.

[tough spot]

My wife just got back from the free consultation with the lawyer. He supposedly recommends that i move out of the house. However, anyone moving, we create a written 'contract' between the two of us with both signatures and a note saying 'we know this isn't a permanent custody document'.

I think our goal is mediation rather than lawyering up. Who has the money for that! Anyway, i am going to go to a lawyer just to make sure there isn't any 'missing' advice my wife 'forgot' to tell me about...........unfortunately the lawyer that people recommended me to is the same that she had a free consultation with!

This whole process still puts me in a fog, like it isn't real. I can't believe my wife's lack of emotion to whenever i express some. Trying not to, trying not to bring anything up. I do honestly still struggle with this detaching etc. It is something i have never done before. Part of me believes that by witholding serious R talks I am actually doing damage.

If what got me here, to this part in our marriage, was us both not talking about in depth feelings and happenings........now i should do more of that?

Went to a counselor today as well. Mostly background, obviously nothing seriously helpful/revealing on the 1st go around.

[FloydMan]

Do not do what 'her' lawyer recommends. You can be certain you do not have all the facts. Do not abandon. My L and the 5 others I consulted with prior to choosing him were emphatic about that. This is the trap men get screwed in. Do not be manipulated I know it hurts. I know it is confusing. I messed up a lot of things like not detaching, but the only thing I did right was not leaving. Either the house gets sold or buy her out. That was my play and hers. We could not agree on buying each other out so we sold. Each bought smaller Townhomes in the same neighbourhood so kids were not uprooted. They are adjusting. They have expressed themselves in recent days this was the best of all the choices. Keep the schools and friends and athletics consistent.
Your W has no automatic right to be the one to stay in the house or have kids. Times have changed.
I wish I detached as per the advice. Might've had a better chance. All I know is the alternative did not work. A bigger mess was created.
Your W's lack of emotion is typical. She is focused and resigned with her intent. The coldness hurts like hell, but will hurt more if you push for emotion and don't get it.
Be well pal. You need to protect yourself. Mediation is best if you can, but don't get taken. She will be out for herself as odd as that is.
Praying for you brother.

[tough spot]

Thanks floyd. I have an appointment with a lawyer tomorrow at 3 for a consultation.

Just watched the movie 'courageous' with my 18 year old son. Basically forced him to watch it He didn't get much out of it, that movie tears me to pieces. But, until you have children of your own...most of the messages in a movie like that have no relevance.

My 21 yr old found me crying in the bathroom today, sitting on the side of the tub in the dark. Got a much needed hug. Somewhat sorry she was exposed to that but then again it was real and i suppose sometimes one gets the privilege of leaning on their children.

The coldness does hurt like hell...would be easier to be angry but i learned that lesson a long time ago in AA. Just a mask for the pain.

[FloydMan]

Well if you don't cry, you're not human. I have shed plenty. it gets better. At 21 she will understand. May be a life lesson for her too in the end.

[tough spot]

Well I have now removed my wife from all of my credit cards. I asked her to go to the bank today to remove her name from our joint checking account as well. She replied that she would as soon as she got her first paycheck deposited in her own new checking account.

Then i remembered our Amazon account so I removed all of that as well. So I think I have limited any potential for aggressive spending on her part. She knows (hopefully) that if she goes crazy with the checking account money, then the mortgage payment will bounce.

Strip out all the emotion from these type things and at the bottom you still have a ton of plain old work/pain in the ass things to do.

[FloydMan]

Good man.
My ex-wife who is a bank manager emptied the joint account and went into $3500 overdraft and also $30k in joint line of credit. I had to keep pumping payments into he joint account for 14 months to prevent mortgage from defaulting. She would just keep pulling. We are now litigating the post separation withdrawals. Oh, her BMW payments that was in joint names was also coming out. I kept paying that too in order to protect my credit...thus protecting hers. She did not care. I owe her on equalization and she owes me $30k in post-separation costs. Still litigating. Close the joint account if you can. Get the legal advice. You will also need to establish valuation (separation) date. Ask lawyer about out this. Start getting the at date of marriage values of what you brought into the marriage. This will be deducted from your net family property. Do not agree to leave the house.
Love ya pal.

[tough spot]

ha, lawyer told me even if it was in my name only....until there is a divorce actually filed, would be considered 'marital debt'.
That is of course within reason. I couldn't have a girlfriend and take her to Europe and have that considered marital debt.

So now even if she has a card in her own name (she does) technically a great majority of whatever is purchased on it could be argued as marital debt and i would be responsible!

But things very stressful but still amicable. I had a talk with her about 'please be open with what you are doing'. So like yesterday she told me she was going to the lawyer. I thanked her.

However, when i was deleting the paypal account, while in the midst of it I told her what i was doing. She got pissed. Kind of see why, as i didn't discuss/tell her about it 'ahead' of time....just like i asked her to do. Sometimes my brain doesn't work very well.....

[FloydMan]

Of course she is pissed....you are limiting her ability to use joint funds (50% yours) for herself. You will not see this money back. Trust me. 2 weeks before my exW called it off, she spent $4000 on a trip to Vegas. 6 weeks before $10,000 on a down payment for BMW along with thousands more in the previous months. She was planning the exit. That money is gone. No recourse. The post separation spend she owes me back, but not the money before the separation....it is marital debt.You need a separation (valuation) date and all funds/assets accounted for at date of separation and date of marriage. You are in a sense paying for her to set up her own life without you. This will not stop...she has a sense of entitlement. She cares about herself right now...not you or the kids.

"Dissipation of marital property occurs when one spouse uses marital property, frivolously and without justification, for a purpose unrelated to the marriage and at a time when the marriage is breaking down. . . . Dissipation involves intentional or purposeful conduct . . . that has the effect of reducing the funds available for equitable distribution."