"Seeing" Both Possible Futures!

[S4tk]

Previous thread (locked) here:
Moved Back from Overseas

I have been thinking about what I want. I have spent three therapy sessions on this one. My therapist says knowing and voicing what I want gives me power and motivation and patience. My friends here have also prodded me to consider that question. Here is what I want:

I want a new marriage to the same woman! I want to experience intimacy and love with her on a level that neither of us knew or understood how to give. I want to romance this woman and experience her and understand her, and I desire that she also provide that for me.

But only if she chooses this. I don't want something fake. If she chooses differently, then I will take what I am learning, take the man I am becoming - and trust God to lead me in new ways.

So I stand at a crossroads. I don't know how long I will stand here. But I see two futures - equally frightening, equally exhilarating.

[Roberta]

It seems as though you have carefully thought about what you would like your marriage to look like in the future. Your goals and plans are well focused and desirable for both you and your wife. You've said that you "want a new marriage to the same woman". Michele Weiner-Davis says that Divorce Busting can teach you how to "Divorce the old marriage and begin a New one with the same partner". I suggest that you call one of our coaches to help you succeed with your wonderfully thought out plan for the future of your marriage. Call me to dicuss our coaching program 303-444-7004.

[3boymom]

I want a new marriage to the same woman! I want to experience intimacy and love with her on a level that neither of us knew or understood how to give. I want to romance this woman and experience her and understand her, and I desire that she also provide that for me.

But only if she chooses this. I don't want something fake. If she chooses differently, then I will take what I am learning, take the man I am becoming - and trust God to lead me in new ways.

So I stand at a crossroads. I don't know how long I will stand here. But I see two futures - equally frightening, equally exhilarating.

I think that this is a great goal. Part of this journey is realizing that you cant go back to your prior marriage, but that there is still hope down the road for a new R, a new M. I thought a lot about this around NYE. I may have to face the official end of my M, but there is also a small possibility that I may get to fall in love with my H all over again. It was amazing the first time and I know that I am in a much better place this time. I hope that we all get to fall in love with our spouses again Just knowing that it is possible gives me strength to continue to improve myself so that I am ready if the opportunity presents itself.

[labug]

I was just looking for you this morning and your old thread was locked.

More later.

[labug]

Previous thread (locked) here:
Moved Back from Overseas

I have been thinking about what I want. I have spent three therapy sessions on this one. My therapist says knowing and voicing what I want gives me power and motivation and patience. My friends here have also prodded me to consider that question. Here is what I want:

I want a new marriage to the same woman! I want to experience intimacy and love with her on a level that neither of us knew or understood how to give. I want to romance this woman and experience her and understand her, and I desire that she also provide that for me.

But only if she chooses this. I don't want something fake. If she chooses differently, then I will take what I am learning, take the man I am becoming - and trust God to lead me in new ways.

So I stand at a crossroads. I don't know how long I will stand here. But I see two futures - equally frightening, equally exhilarating.

This is right where we all need to be.

Taking responsibility for ourselves

Acting with respect, love, dignity, and empathy,

Being authentic to our core values,

Letting the chips fall where they may.

[S4tk]

So that is my goal and my desire and what I want...

I am still not convinced how to arrive there. For example, W got very mad at me about a week ago when I went out for a run. I've been running for 4 months and have lost about 40 pounds.

She said she asked me to run with her last year and I was up for doing it but we never got around to lining up babysitters 3x a week to go running together. She blames me for this.

This is just one example of MANY. But my GALing and 180s - at times they are making her angry. I know I am not responsible for her emotions. I'm fine on an existential level if she gets pissed off for the wrong reasons sometimes. But shouldn't this process of "becoming the husband only a fool would leave" be leading us toward some more positive interactions with each other?

Or are several more months of validating and listening to the blame game just part of the process that has the highest likelihood of success?

[KdogGS]

I think when you're validating and listening that's good. Something like the following may help-
"I understand you're upset that I am running now and would not run with you in the past. I can't go back and run with you in the past, but you're welcome to join me on my runs now. I am not running to upset you, only to improve my health."

Others can chime in if that would work, I guess we don't know until you try it. Another choice would be to get her to specify why it is that makes her mad, is it the running, or not spending quality time with her in the past? Is running a symbol for a bigger underlying issue and she chooses to address running rather than lack of quality time together before? I think you can dig a little bit on that topic if you get the chance again.

[labug]

She said she asked me to run with her last year and I was up for doing it but we never got around to lining up babysitters 3x a week to go running together. She blames me for this.

Who was responsible for getting a person to be with your kids? Did either of you take the initiative?

I'm fine on an existential level if she gets pissed off for the wrong reasons sometimes.

Who gets to decide they're the "wrong" reasons?

I know, me and my questions.

Just know that I've asked myself these things along with many others. Many times I come up on the short end and then I know I have more work to do.

[AnotherStander]

Here is what I want:

I want a new marriage to the same woman! I want to experience intimacy and love with her on a level that neither of us knew or understood how to give. I want to romance this woman and experience her and understand her, and I desire that she also provide that for me.

Your W wants something very different, she probably just wants out of the M. So your goals and hers are at odds. The more you push for what you want, then the more she's going to run. Personally I think you need to quit focusing on how bad you want your W back and what that might look like. You named this thread "Seeing Both Possible Futures!", so my question to you is this- what does your -other- possible future look like? The one without your W? Picture that one, imagine a great life that you can have WITHOUT your W. Then prepare yourself for EITHER of those futures. Once you get there, where you know you will be fine REGARDLESS of whether your W is part of your life or not, then you are in a much better position to make yourself into the spouse only a fool would leave and to become the independent, strong, healthy person that might attract your W back.

[sandi2]

But shouldn't this process of "becoming the husband only a fool would leave" be leading us toward some more positive interactions with each other?

In time it should, if her idea of that H is the same as yours. But I think when a woman is ready to walk away from the M b/c she has basically given up on getting her needs met in the MR, and after she reaches that decision she sees her H doing things that he wouldn't do when she wanted & tried to get him to do in the past.... yes, it could cause anger. She is angry b/c you waited until now to do it.

IMO, some WAW probably want to scream at the LBH and say, "Don't you get it? I'm through with all of this! You wait until the M is over and then you decide to do what I've tried to get you to do for years?"

I don't how you respond (if any)to her anger, but if you can understand why she's angry, it might help you to be sensitive to her feelings. You probably think you can't do anything to please her at the moment, and a lot of that may be true, b/c she has a lot of "stuff" that she has to work through. Just as you can't expect overnight to become that man only a fool would leave, neither can she get her stuff together that quickly.

Since you both are Christians, I will tell you this about my own stitch as a WAW who got busted on her EA. I did not happily make a decision to stay in my M. I was not eager and did not care about putting forth one ounce of effort to improve the R. I was extremely resentful of many things in our past MR together and had no desire to continue on with my H. My decision was simply made to "do the right thing". I had always done the right thing (based on what I was taught) except, of course, during the EA/WAW time. However, my decision to do "right" did not bring me happiness. My H & I were going through several very tough transitions in life....our ages, increasing health problems,finances,family, MR, etc. In trying to escape from my reality through an EA, actually made these other problems escalate. My H's health steadily got worse. I won't go into all of it, but my point is that we had to get through all those other transitions whether our we stayed together or not. Lord only knows what kind of mess I would be in today if I had left. I will forever be thankful I chose to do the right thing. However, positive feelings were not there for me. I was just there....and for a long time, that was the best I could do. I realize everyone is not the same, but that was how I was at that time.

Once I made the decision to stay, then I had to get through the withdrawal addiction of the EA. It was very difficult and if not for this board talking to me every night, I don't know if I would have made it. After I got through the withdrawal period, then I thought I would nearly die with depression. It was horrible. I had a lot of work to do on myself before I could get enough strength to work on the M. When you have no desire to be in a position you're in.......how much do you really give it? I can tell you..... not very much at all.

My H didn't have the tools you've received here on the board. He wouldn't go with me to see a MC to piece our M back together. But he was and has continued to be a lighthouse in many ways. His love for me is amazing and I will never be the W he truly deserves. I've not told many folks this, b/c they don't want to hear what I'm about to tell you. After making the decision to do the right thing....it took around two more years of me getting through my personal "stuff"...and getting my heart right... and able to feel like I could put some effort toward a better M. And all those other transitional problems we were facing? Well, they didn't magically disappear once I made the right decision.

I don't tell that information often b/c it must sound discouraging to newcomers. I am not sure why I'm telling you, but just felt like I should. I do want the LBS to know that sometimes just making the decision is exhausting b/c it affects the rest of life.

Remember, you are on a path that is not going to be parallel to hers for quite some time. You both will take a lot of twists and turns before traveling down the road as a happy couple. You may observe her and listen to her, but you don't know what all is going through her head/heart. When she gets in a mood over you trying to be that wonderful guy, just remind yourself she has so much of her own stuff to get through...and it will take time. And if she does make the right decision, don't expect her to be excited about staying. The right decision is her first step, but those emotions you have about a new MR probably won't be her emotions for a while. That's not to say it's hopeless! It will come, but it takes time.

Some LBH's let these everyday things push them to give up, but I'm telling you if you can hang in there, the M can be saved....even if she's not putting anything toward working on it right now.