maybe a bit off the edge?

[dingo]

old thread here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2415128&page=11

Previous thread locked. Just wanted to start a new one and thank everyone for their support and posts.

I did want to restate my last question so it doesn't get lost in the thread transfer:

Do you guys see the recent events in my situation as positive, negative or neither? I think these events are pretty typical but its still maddening. I guess I see her lack of contact and his backing off as positive?

Maybe the right answer is that none of it really matters until she commits to the M or commits to the D?

[sandi2]

An optimist will always find something positive just as the pessimist will find something negative.

The sad thing is when you are believing progress is being made, only to discover she hasn't been 100% truthful or she didn't honor what she had said she'd do, etc. I'm sure you feel crushed all over again. B/c how could a man get use to this?

The positive side I think is you've had to face some tough things and maybe had to face some of your own weaknesses. Not fun stuff! If it helps you be a stronger, better man.....then I see it holding positive lessons (lessons b/c I believe you are beginning to learn from the experience). I also believe you are getting ready to rely on some DB tools, instead of finding a magic button to press.

The other thing I see as being a big plus is the fact she continues to still want to see you....and the fact the two of you can have a great time together and not discuss the R or have a fight! She hasn't filed for a D in order to be "free" from the M. There are positive issues along this line.

Some may see it as a positive move that OM has told her what he did. I hope so, but the positive action needs to be coming from your action....and not the other guy. It may be a break for you that he told her not to contact him.....but I don't think so. You can't depend on what the OM does or doesn't do. The two people in the M had to be the ones to do the work.....not the A partner, know what I mean? However, if it would really tick her off at him enough to get her through her withdrawal stages, it could shorten the time....maybe, IDK. I just don't believe it's going to be that easy. Notice, he told her to not come around "until" she was D. Hardly the same as "I never, ever want to lay eyes on you again!" So, he left a door open for her.

The negative side is that she is addicted to this A and keeps running back to OM b/c of the thrill she gets. She confuses the thrill with falling in love.....but she loves you, so more confusion while she bounces back & forth. She tries to hold onto both men b/c she's get "part" of her needs met by you and "part" of her needs met by the OM. That has a lot to do with why she can't make up her mind and choose one.

The truth is that a M won't survive her having multiple affairs, and if the "need" that sent her to OM is not filled by her H, she will have more affairs. She was already on the prowl before she turned to him, so there was a problem in the M. The problem will need to be resolved, fixed, or healed.

Not that you have said anything on these line, I'm just saying....it's not about winning or losing another person in a relationship. It is about loving another person completely, and being able to trust them without the need to spy. It is about value. Knowing what you can live with and what you won't live without. It doesn't always come at once. We make mistakes, we learn and we grow. Love and forgiveness have to walk hand in hand or it splits. I see no reason the two of you can't start over and have a wonderful life together. But I don't think she needs to hear a lot of discussion or R talks at this time. Sadly, talking R to a WAW is about useless. Besides, you've tried it, right? Hopefully, the time will come to talk but it's usually later.

I think the term going dark may seem over-powering to you. If you can see yourself as unavailable to her......it's a beginning. I am still seeing this M being saved!

[dingo]

Thanks again Sandi - i have to admit that your last line choked me up a little and I am so very thankful for your support.

I know that the real core of the problem existed before the A and will need to be fixed and healed. I think it can be done and she has voiced the same.

She still wants to see me - although that has been limited during the "space", hugs me, kisses me (not passionately but still decent lip kisses) and still says she loves me. Its pretty nuts at times.

Again, the optimist will always see something positive but I do see some differences this time around. She has had the ability to continue to see him without anything external holding her back. I did not pressure her to stop seeing him in the week or so leading up to her cutting ties. I knew what was going on but kept my mouth shut and went dark/dim. My hopeful conclusion is that she either realized that there were key things missing from that R or at the very least that she couldn't make a good assessment of our R while he was in the picture. In essence, she made the positive step to end it and he reacted. The other possibility is that he was pressuring her to leave her M and it backfired, just like me pressuring her to leave her A backfired.

That being said, I don't know for sure that she is addicted anymore - or maybe more appropriately put - I think that while it makes her feel good, she is willing to stop. She definitely still has feelings for him and has withdrawals to go through. While she hasn't taken D off of the table, she has said over and over again that she isn't at all convinced that a true R with the OM would be something she wants.

On to the important things - I have had to face some of my shortcomings and know exactly how I failed earlier in the M. I also know what I need to do for myself, both in the context of this situation and beyond it. Those lessons are valuable no matter the outcome.

I do feel like I love her completely now, something that I did not feel until a few months before everything fell apart. And I do forgive her, even if its difficult to trust her right now.

I do like the term unavailable as opposed to going dark - going dark seems so extreme and final.

Just the thoughts racing through my head tonight. Yesterday I felt like I did the day of BD. Today i feel a whole lot better than i did the day after the BD. I guess that's progress.

[labug]

I agree with Sandi, I think this can be saved but we have no crystal ball or magic wand.

You have to do the work. What if you said to her, I need this to go really slow, let's plan to see each other once/week for a while?

Sandi gives you a road map in her awesome post. Your W needs to have the feeling she got from him with you. Your challenge: figure out how to do that and how to keep it alive for the long-term.

There was a post Ruby wrote about wanting to be the one who got "the look" from her H. We all want that, don't we? That look that melts our insides and makes us feel like we are the only other person in the world. Work on giving her "the look."

Too often, those are the things that get lost in a marriage.

We all need a little excitement in our lives.

[dingo]

Thanks for the input labug. The first challenge is to get to where she is even receptive to having those feelings for me. Right now I am trying to leave her alone and wait for her to contact me. Depending on how that goes, I will consider proposing the once/week thing.

[dingo]

We are back on the downswing. W called me this morning to ask if we could meet up and talk. I told her I wasn't really ready to talk about things yet and she said she came to a decision and is ready to get D. So it's a complete 180 from where we were just a week ago or even a few days ago.

After she said that, i agreed to talk in person and went over to her place. As much as I hate to admit it, she seemed very business like and did not waver from her decision. She said she was tired of being in limbo and wanted to pursue a relationship with the OM. She's just not willing to give that up. I proposed the take it slowly/1 date per week thing and she wasn't interested. Said she tried that for the past 2 weeks and it didnt change her feelings at all.

She seems convicted and in the grand scheme of things, it seems our situation has been moving this way for a while. Yes there have been ttimes where she's 'come back to me' but they haven't been very committed or convincing. She eventually did move out and since then, we have been hanging out even less and drifting further apart it sseems. The OM is part of her circle of friends so I am sure it's easy and fun all the time.

The only semi - positive thing is that she agreed to not move forward with anything until Feb 1. Supposedly so that she could prove to me that this is what she really wants and isn't just an emotional decision. However, I think I do already believe that she will stick to this decision and I need to prepare myself to be ok with it.

[JayMan]

dingo - if it helps my W would sometimes swing back and forth in the same 24 hours, let alone week to week. I rode the roller-coaster a LOT, so just at least know it's normal.

[dingo]

Thanks for the support Jon. I have followed your thread in the pie in forum and can empathize with a lot of what you're going through.

I don't know what to do from here. She talked about getting some appointments with Realtors to sell the house. A week ago this thought 'made her stomach knot' but this morning she talked about it completely emotionless. She wants to finalize paperwork. Again 2 days ago she was adamant that she didn't want this but now it's more matter of fact than ever.

I've been on this ride for 8 months now. I know it's not that long but it's starting to feel like a 'lost' time for me. I feel like I am the one keeping us in limbo sometimes by always backing her down.

[labug]

Don't do anything, just keep living your life.

You can decide to buy a ticket for the ride or not.

Let her do what she will do.

I know this is painful and you probably feel jerked around. She's unsure of what she wants right now. That's hers to figure out.

You can decide what you want.

[dingo]

Is she unsure of what she wants? How do I know when she is sure? When she starts taking actions? She's moved out, been hanging out with me less and less, we haven't hung out together with family/friends in a very long time. Feels like it's been a slow bleed.

She at least seems convinced that OM is more compatible with her than I am and she is willing to end the marriage for that relationship - or at least says that she is. This has been the case all year. She has never been able to give him up.

I am in a lot of pain right now. A few days ago we were talking about going away for a weekend or going hiking. Today when I asked her about the things we used to do together, she says she doesn't want to do those things with me anymore. Despite the pain, I don't know if I can deny things any longer. Regardless of how she may feel for me, it's not enough to break her from the OM. She talked about wanting a family today and how her best chance is with him.

To answer the rest bug, I don't plan to do anything right now. I will be silent and give her the two weeks (again, she doesn't feel like she needs them and is just doing it to prove to me that this is what she really wants). I am not going to call lawyers or realtors. I am going to start to lessen my hope though. I know what I want. To be in a relationship that's mutually beneficial to both people. Where we care about each other and meet each others needs. I stayed in this because I was sure that she just needed time to figure out that she wanted to be with me. I think I need to consider that time has helped her figure out that she doesn't want to be with me.