Here I Am Again!

[Missmygirl]

Some interesting things E has said to me:

I feel things got worse between us when you started getting coaching/counseling.

When you talk to me, you make me feel like I'm talking to a psychologist.

You spend lots of time trying to figure out how to word things.

I am NOT having an MLC.

I don't know you anymore.

You just want to control me.

Have any of you out there experienced your spouse pushing you further away from them because you have made changes or actually try to communicate your feelings with them.

E really thinks that:

1) She's done nothing wrong. (Speculation, I know. Although she has said that there is nothing wrong with partying all night. And time spent with OM is innocent and is only so kids can play together.)
2) I am insecure.
3) I try to control her.
4) I cannot be trusted.

I think I have pretty much figured out that I am married to a man who just happens to be trapped in an awesome female body. She doesn't like to talk about feelings. Goes into her cave. Looks at me like I've got two heads when I try to show her I'm am interested in communicating with her. Very analytical like a man, but with all the traits of a woman as well. She gets upset and cries like a woman. I can read books about women my whole life long and STILL not be able to figure out how to understand her. Lots of the stuff in books about women in general just don't seem to apply.

She complains that I am not open with her. If I am completely open and don't sugarcoat my words to her, she gets defensive and starts her counterattack.

What seems to calm our storm is when I don't talk about what bothers me, and don't talk about our relationship. Her way of dealing with this mess is just like a man. If I was the wife and she were the husband you would be hearing me say, "I try to connect with him and he just withdraws. He doesn't want to do anything with me. He just wants to hang out with his buddies at the bar. He's in his own little world and has surrounded himself with his friends. Whenever I say something to him about this, he just claims that I am being critical and nagging him." She does a very good job, however, of assuming the role of the WAW by thoroughly briefing my on all the times I or my family members have hurt her.

[2ndTimeHurt]

I can totally relate to that. Try reading men are from mars... It states that there will be role reversals. It's up to you to figure out those reversals. My ex said the same exact things the first time she left. I think it's all part of the fog they're in. Couple that with any personality disorders/resentment/anger and it can get extremely confusing.

Just letting you know that you aren't alone during these confusing times.

[planet]

Since she's somehow embroiled in a R with OM, whatever you do is going to rub her the wrong way.

Have any of you out there experienced your spouse pushing you further away from them because you have made changes or actually try to communicate your feelings with them.

You are communicating YOUR feelings?
I don't know what anyone else thinks about this but the last thing I feel your W wants to know is your feelings.

[Missmygirl]

Planet,

You are right. That is the last thing she wants to hear. Actually, after I read what I posted above and started looking at myself like I was a nagging woman, I heard myself saying, "Just shut up! She doesn't want to hear any of your nagging and it's just driving her farther away."

BTW, I don't think she's still communicating with this OM. I made it very clear in October that I would not tolerate her having ANY contact with him. The last time I know that she spoke with him was back in September. She knows that this is off limits.

With E, I think this is more of a power struggle. Almost like a stand to assert her individuality and independence. She has always been hyper sensitive to people placing demands on her. She can come across as quite headstrong, spirited, rebellious if you will. Even if you're trying to help her solve a problem, if you tell her what to do, that's her cue to do the opposite.

Maybe I've smothered her. Maybe I've placed too many demands on her. Maybe this is her way of acting out. She's hell bent on showing me that she can't be and won't be controlled. Much like a wild horse, she's so crazy about getting "free" of anyone who tries to harness her that she will hurt anyone and everyone who gets in her way. Even herself.

When I met her, I was attracted to her independent spirit, her confidence and her drive. Not sure why I expected her to settle down. She was quiet for a while. Within these past couple of years, she's just "exploded".

I am now commencing a new 180. Instead of "Just Do It", mine is going to be called "Just Quit". That means I give up on us and quit trying to make it work. If she finally decides she wants a relationship with me, she'll have to prove it thru action, cause I'm done trying. I'm now taking care of me and my two daughters.

If you guys hear me telling stories of confronting her about partying, trying to get her to tell me her feelings, me telling her how I feel, or any other crap like that, skip the 2x4 and go straight to the Louisville Slugger.

2x, thanks for the support. I just started reading about what you're dealing with. I hope things are well with you. Hang in there!

[2ndTimeHurt]

Thanks.

Your w sounds a lot like my ex. Fiercely independent. Does not want help yet recently i found out that she did in fact want to be cared for. Guys obviously show they care in different ways though(dont offer solutions!). I think it boils down to just being 100% accepting of her(validate). I'm not sure what phase or stage you're at with your w so maybe giving her "space" might be a wise choice. Let her cool down a bit. Giving space can work wonders in letting them get back to "normal".

[Missmygirl]

2x,

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I HAVE heard her say she wants to be accepted 100% the way she is. Now I've got to figure out if I can do that. Not sure I want to live with someone who is like this. The argumentative nature she displays has gotten quite tiring. I know she wants to be cared for. Problem is that when she's this way I don't feel like doing that. I find her attitude repellant.

Room and time is what I'm giving myself. I used to think she needed the space. I now feel I need it! I'm not gonna ride this roller coaster anymore. I'm content to go solo if I have to.

[planet]

I HAVE heard her say she wants to be accepted 100% the way she is. Now I've got to figure out if I can do that. Not sure I want to live with someone who is like this.

Yes. Acceptance and Detachment.
You obviously can live with someone like that. You've been doing it for some time.
Patience.

The argumentative nature she displays has gotten quite tiring.

Ha. Same here.

I know she wants to be cared for.

Leave her to herself. Can't do anything if she doesn't want to be cared for. Offer her but walk away if she doesn't take you up on it.
She's still staying with you and no OM. There's a big chance to turn things around.
You're in good shape but quit talking about your feelings.

Room and time is what I'm giving myself. I used to think she needed the space. I now feel I need it! I'm not gonna ride this roller coaster anymore.

Yep. LBH needs space too.
GOD knows WE need plenty of them.

[2ndTimeHurt]

2x,

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I HAVE heard her say she wants to be accepted 100% the way she is. Now I've got to figure out if I can do that. Not sure I want to live with someone who is like this. The argumentative nature she displays has gotten quite tiring. I know she wants to be cared for. Problem is that when she's this way I don't feel like doing that. I find her attitude repellant.

Room and time is what I'm giving myself. I used to think she needed the space. I now feel I need it! I'm not gonna ride this roller coaster anymore. I'm content to go solo if I have to.

the mistake I made during our last reconciliation was that she thought I didn't accept 100%. I truly wanted to but I just couldn't work through some issues fast enough.

One thing to remember is that if you change first she will follow. But there are usually more ways to change than just the ones you can think of right now. I learned that the hard way. I thought if I changed my anger things would be fine. Turns out there were more. And I accept those changes need to be made so there wouldn't be any resentment building up on my side.

If you want to see immediate change from your w, don't engage in any arguments. Period. Bite your tongue. Now isn't the time to defend yourself. Just let her rant like a toddler and accept she has issues of her own. Continue on making yourself happy.

Even though I'm not with my ex and she's dating, I know I can control some of her nastiness by me being non confrontational. It's really hard doing this 100% of the time, but if you behave like this more times than not, you will probably see your w change too.

You know your own boundaries so act accordingly and non argumentatively.

It's tough being in our shoes....

[Missmygirl]

Got home this morning. E was in the kitchen with our oldest daughter, getting ready to send her off to school. I said hello with a smile, hugged our daughter and started pulling out a few things I purchased for us (really for myself) on my trip. Chit chatted a bit with our daughter. E seemed fine. No displays of irritation, which was nice.

Made sure I didn't touch E. Didn't ask her anything other than how her morning was going, and headed upstairs to unpack and get some rest.

Today has actually been nice. I haven't brought up things. And she hasn't offered any. I have come to the realization that as an individual, she is incapable of discussing things like our relationship. She never saw any success with it at home and all she ever saw was confrontation between her father and mother before their eventual divorce. I think it is impossible to work through things like this with her. I won't even try.

I had purchased discounted tickets so I could take myself and our two girls to an amusement park this summer. I figured it could be father/daughter time. E said she wanted to go as well. It was her suggestion a couple of years ago that i do things like this with the girls. Time for them to bond with me. Now it seems like if i don't buy tix for her to go as well, she feels like I'm trying to exclude her. Well, I guess that's a natural response. She says she doesn't trust me anymore.

Told her I was going to get SCUBA certified before our trip to the Caribbean in the spring. Asked if she wanted to do it with me. Answer was "no." That's ok. I'll have fun on my own. I'll ask another friend to go.

Worked on tax stuff today. She started getting irritated with the whole process and it started coming out in her shortness with me. I told her that if I was her coworker, she wouldn't be talking like that to me. I was there to work with her and if she continued getting spooled up like that, I was going to remove myself. No comment from her. She settled down.

I'm reminding myself of my new policy. Just Quit. Today it's working for me. If we break up, that's fine. I would rather not, but if we do, that's cool, too. I'm quitting. I've done enough around here. It's her turn.

I'm sleeping in our guest bedroom again and enjoying the peace and tranquility there.

Life is good and I have many reasons I can tell you that I am convinced of it.

[Missmygirl]

I would appreciate some help navigating a minefield:

My wife repeatedly accuses me of being controlling. She says that I try to control her and the kids. I don't believe this is an accurate statement, but I have been making a conscious effort over the last year to ensure I am flexible. I often defer decisions to E to help her feel more in control. I'll ask her what she wants or what she thinks, and then I'll go with her recommendation.

Today I didn't do that and I didn't do it on purpose. As a result we ended up butting heads over something regarding one of our daughters. We have a daughter who is ADHD and has also been diagnosed with Oppositional Defiant Disorder, which is often found in people with ADHD. After attempting to reason with our daughter repeatedly, I finally told our daughter that she would have to do some log entries the way we would prefer that she do them. E and I have to check these entries everyday and it is much easier for us if they are done the way we requested she do them. Our 11 year old responded by stomping her feet, glaring, raising her voice to us and making sure that we knew she was not happy about it. In fact, she threatened to destroy the logs.

E witnessed all this, asked me into another room and then accused me of being controlling. She said that if our daughter didn't want to do it that way, then she shouldn't have to, since it's not safety or health related. She is willing to do the extra work to avoid a confrontation with our daughter.

I feel that if I stand my ground on something, I get accused of being controlling, however, if I avoid the accusation, it requires that it all be done to E's specifications. In this case, if I deny my daughter her way on something, except safety or health related issues, I am being accused of being controlling.

I am concerned that if we let our daughter do as she pleases whenever she disagrees with us (as long as it's not health or safety related) we are setting ourselves up for hell when our 11 year old reaches her teens. In addition, our daughter will think that in life, if she raises enough hell, she can get her way. That mentality will cause her a lot of difficulties later on in life.

Do any of you see a way to for me to assure E that I'm not trying to be a puppet master while simultaneously ensuring that my daughter complies with a demand I place on her?

Anyone brave enough to take this one on?