Unlearning Conflict Avoidance - 9

[25yearsmlc]

Journal:

W was unfriendly Sunday. On Monday I managed to ask her how her day was ("long") and then left her alone, and tonight she actually ate dinner with d and I, describing how she had been filmed at work, by a moving camera on a dolly, of which she seemed proud. I am happy for her - perhaps there is an element of MLC involved here also. So she seems to be loosening up a little.


Hi Luke,

Just wanted to reply to that^^. LL, you & your wife's situation has been going on for the past 10 years. (Ten years)...


Now, please, Take that ^^^ sentence, and the YEARS of living without affection or intimacy from your w, and fewer & fewer words of kindness, no touching, morphing into open contempt and tension and hostility in your home and surrounding your children when they are around you and your w...TEN years...

No, I do not think an "MLC" is what has happened with your w. By definition it should be called something else, due to sheer duration...

If she is now entering one, it doesn't change a thing at your end unless she abuses you even more, which would only speed things up for you. After 10 years, using the term "Speed" is a loose use of the word.

From where I'm sitting, It looks like grasping at straws or hoping there is a reason to believe she is going to sua sponte, wake up, go way back into your m history, and want back in the M in a totally fun loving affection filled way, w/ intimacy and deep communications and.....and....and...

Luke, when you see this^^^ in print, how does it make you see your situation?

Are you still thinking she is going to want something like this^^^ with you?

Would It be a m your kids have ever seen?

When I think of what your kids could learn from you and a loving OW in your life, it so dramatically contrasts with what you have w/your w, I can only believe they'd benefit a lot. Unless it's too late, which I hope isn't the case.

More to say on your post, but I lack the time to do it justice atm. I just had to comment about that term "MLC" in this situation.


I know her moods should not affect me, and after rereading MLC25's advice to others, will try and go for a hike this weekend (there is hardly any snow here) with some others, and work more on GAL, focusing on with others. Maybe d15 and I can do something also, which would be very nice.

Good idea! Pretty soon you need to have a REAL talk with your d. Discuss the whole situation from HER POV and see what she thinks she needs.

Though what she says may be what she really thinks, that still won't make it be true. Just Evaluate her words with a grain of salt, and a ton of empathy.




I ran into the grandmother of a friend of d15, who said it would not work out with them to go skiing and use their hut, so something was being worked on there. Perhaps I should suggest that d and w go to someplace sunnier, take the weather pressure off, as it were. They both have the Swedish sports break week coming up.

I will need to travel for work again in the next weeks, but just within Europe.

Luke

[25yearsmlc]

"I usually only see d15 for 15 minutes a day, at dinner, as she is then upstairs with W (and I am down), but would love to see her more, though without demanding or forcing this in any way. "

You're not "forcing" your way into anything if you just go upstairs. You've gone backwards again. You're afraid to spend time with them. Just do it. No analyzing, no fear. Just walk up the stairs. Maybe you could have some dessert and just go up and offer it to them then hang around. Just do it.

THIS^^^^....Read this post again, seriously...AND get time with your d. Just Stop waiting for an invite. You are her dad. You think an invite would mean that you are guaranteed no rejection.

Stop waiting, and gird yourself for the risk you are taking but take it anyhow. Otherwise you'll be downstairs "waiting" for another 10 years. Maybe you'll then wait to get an invite to see the grandchildren? THINK out the implications of your inaction.

LL, all this advice has to sink in now, or I'm not sure it ever will.

Please, please hear me.

[Wonka]

Here' the thing....Luke...it comes across as if you're AFRAID of your own house! In my own home, I can walk into any room as I darn please and nobody is gonna stop me!

You do own the house, right?

[25yearsmlc]

Here' the thing....Luke...it comes across as if you're AFRAID of your own house! In my own home, I can walk into any room as I darn please and nobody is gonna stop me!

You do own the house, right?

EXACTLY^^^...L, I know you still have feelings for your w & we are pro=M, but not at all costs.

Although I'm not sure what your attraction is based on in terms of having such bad treatment for so long, and yet sort of claiming to have had a good m in the past...I bet you did. But how long ago was that?

ALL indications are that it is ending, and ending soon...what have you DONE differently around your family?


And how long do you think your son & daughter can stand to see you treated this way?

Oh, Wonka, He owns it! And He earns 80% of the household income, too. No alimony in Sweden, which surely LL"s wife knows by now.

That happens to make me think she may have OM (in mind at least.) LL, I'm NOT suggesting you snoop b/c I agree fully with the DB book that snooping does NOT help.

But would an A make ANY difference to you, L? IF so, what?

Snooping makes you crazy. Please don't do it.

But since your w has said she has made PLANS to divorce and she has Acted on those plans, I assume she knows the financial realities of Her choices. Yet she has said little to nothing about a settlement, that I recall. As if she's Not worried about it, which is odd. I mean, she's less concerned about money than any stbxw that I know of...

Hasn't she merely suggested living arrangements, and you helping with your d's schooling, which necessitates a move from you to be near your d?

As it is planned now, your w is removing your d from the home in a matter of weeks for the other school, right? So it sure seems like the m is ending in a few weeks. Your d is leaving the home. Have you two spoken about THAT?

IN these remaining weeks, you come here and you post questions that show me you are still "wondering" and "asking IF" and "HOW" you can go upstairs to spend time with your d.

LL, try to see this from a few steps back. The finish line is in sight.

I feel as if you are "thinking about racing" but the thing is, the race is almost over now. Whether you ran well before, is not today's problem.

How you go from this day forward, IS.

Luke, I hope in the time you have remaining in your home,

you'll at least act as if you belong there. And you must talk to your d. Think of some of the EE exercises and you can imagine a way to reach her. Open ended questions and of course, no W around...

You are going to be alright. Are you still seeing a T there? Are they helpful? I'm sorry if that offends.

You're simply one of the smartest, and perhaps among the slowest to act, around. It's an interesting (sometimes frustrating) combination.

We've met, so I can tell folks, you are very different in person than what is presented here. At least now you are. I can't speak to who you were a decade ago.

I know one thing. You had an awakening about half a year ago at the EE Workshop. You are beginning to use some new tools and to implement a plan you are forming for how you want to live the second half of your life.

I'm just wondering how long you'll take to implement the PLAN itself. Not making a decision in these circumstances, I believe, IS a decision --

and choosing to wait & hand your future over to a person who has open contempt for you, in front of your two kids, is a bad choice.

You need to be in DAMAGE CONTROL now.

The only two things that matter are how often you'll see your kids and asset protection.
LL, have YOU retained a lawyer?

How do you feel about the finances if she does what she says she has planned (and set a date for)?

Yes L, I'm sorry but I do think she will file.

I think for HER, she has seen too little change in you, and Lord knows she has her own issues, but deep meaningful communication has been absent for a decade. That is quite the chasm.

Your life will get better. But look out for your kids more actively. A lot more actively...please, for their sake and yours.

((( )))

[LuckyLuke]

Hi MLC,

It is good to hear from you. I hope you are healing well. Your toughness and inner power (the Finns have a good word for it, sisu) is amazing.

This may be a jumble, but:

o I don't snoop, having realized a long time ago that it just hurts me.
o D settlement here is simply 50/50, with no fault; my W said she wants half the house and then we are finished.
o I can't afford to buy her out.
o finances should be fine, as I am the primary wage earner.
o d15 commutes an hour each way to school, and W works half way there. The most logical thing for W to do is get a place near her work, and so nearer d15 school also.
o I could move nearer to d15 school also, but hate the idea of moving.
o getting my d15 alone is important. She and W have adjoining rooms upstairs, with the door between them open, so it is hard to talk alone with her.
o what do you suggest I say to d15? The primary thing for me is to improve my relationship with her. d15 and W are very close - they spend hours in adjoining rooms, every evening, and have their 5.30 breakfast every morning, without teenage rebellion from d15; I heard my W say once that she (W) is d15's best friend, and believe it.
o do I tell d15 that I don't feel like I've been a good dad, and ask what I can do to improve our relationship? Do I mention a possible D?
o I had been seeing a T here, but she is booked for a long while now, so I will Skype with T ee leader again, with whom I've had a few sessions.
o yeah, I also have a feeling W will pull the trigger (sigh), and wonder what comes after. I don't want to repeat the same mistakes with a new woman, if I am lucky enough to find one. What can I do to prevent the same mess from happening again? The film last night (very worth seeing) was about the mess that relationships can be.
o my life in California is so different, where I have a caring "family" (MIL and her boyfriend, with whom I live when there), and where there are fun meetups, and I have colleagues I see at work, and feel respected by. That is quite the difference from here, where I am alone so much.
o yes, ee opened up my humanity and hurt and made me aware that I am responsible for my life. It would be wonderful to be near that community and support.
o no, I have not retained a lawyer, as the no fault thing and my W's statements make this seem unnecessary. I know one, if needed.
o I expect to see d15 50% of the time.
o living 1/3 of my time in the US, and liking it in spite of the insanity, and having lived in other countries also, makes me open to all sorts of thoughts of where to live. Being near d15 means staying here though, even if it seems the least interesting place.
o I would love to meet for dinner again, if you feel up to it.
o the fundamental thing in this marriage has been the power relationship. My W outpowered me, dominated. I read that it is important to avoid powerful women for a man like me: can you imagine formulating the ad for such a person? (haha)

Thanks so much -

Luke

ps. responses to others are coming in separate posts.

[LuckyLuke]

Yes, Wonka, I am (co-) owner of the house, and earn 80% of the family income, though my W has done most of the extensive renovations.

I'll be sleeping upstairs tonight, and will take a (still jet-lagged) nap now up there. All the Christmas stuff is off son's bed.

I told my sister about this whole situation and she was very supportive. She also has closeness to the kids issues.

W asked if she could take the car, and I said of course, I don't need it. I hate it when she does that.

D15 is coming home extra late tonight, W earlier with the car.

I just hate the atmosphere and tension between W and I, and feel sorry that my d15 has to be in this.

Luke

[LuckyLuke]

So what changes once (if) the D papers are signed? We will still be in the same house, at least for a bit. What do you do after signing?

My sister pointed out that, given my good relationship with still-MIL, I might be able to stay at her house as ex-SIL friend. That would certainly make working in California easier (I have clothes and stuff there).

Just had a good warm nap up in son's bed.

Luke

[LuckyLuke]

I do not expect W to move anytime soon, but may be wrong. The only 'signs' of anything are some new frying pans that replaced some old ones, and the Christmas decorations not being put away. These 'signs' are completely open to interpretation, and don't really change anything anyway. The only possibly 'positive' sign would be her ordering seeds for the garden, which usually happens in February/March.

I also do not expect her to just take my d15 with her, which would be unacceptable - she has to talk about that with me!

Just skyped with S20, who needs a new laptop sometime. He is coming to Sweden with a female roommate over Spring Break, and looking for a job in Scotland (he studies there) over the summer.

L

[LuckyLuke]

Thats'a what I'ma lookin' for, real love!

The husband for a few days more in the film last night was a very sympathetic guy, and had a messed up W, with whom he dealt with wonderfully. If you like complicated relationship films, with lots of twists and characters and details, I can really recommend "The Past".

Thanks for your good wishes, gm -

Luke

[MrBond]

"Yes, Wonka, I am (co-) owner of the house, and earn 80% of the family income, though my W has done most of the extensive renovations."

I don't think it was meant to be taken literally. It meant that you shouldn't be afraid to go upstairs of your own home.

"W asked if she could take the car, and I said of course, I don't need it. I hate it when she does that."

Hates when she does what? She asked for your permission. Why would that get you upset? This along with your little pet peeve about her not referring to you by name is a MINOR thing.

"I just hate the atmosphere and tension between W and I, and feel sorry that my d15 has to be in this."

Then do something about it. Just when you start to build momentum, you keep stopping.

STOP BEING AFRAID!