All - I do not think it is good to tell my d15 about our divorcing before the summer. I do not think this^^ matters to your w at all. (Clearly). So, I assume you have not told her that you feel this way. You wanted her to...guess it? Or you think she knows and she does not care.
Do you see how sitting there saying you don't think it should happen at all or before summer, DOES nothing? It's just you telling US what you feel and have felt but not expressed. We can't do much with that but tell you, again & again, that your time for "thinking" and "pondering" is well past.
Perhaps she is tougher than I give her credit for, but I can see this messing up her school year, which doesn't have to be. but it IS happening. It is happening. (I repeated that for you to note). Don't skim over that. It's reality. Also, I don''t think we should move before the summer. But they are! And just so I know, did You even tell your w that you wanted to "stay m" AND OR "not divorce before the summer"? Did you tell her or not?
Not that it matters to HER, b/c she's doing it anyhow. But did You bother Talking to her about this? Recently?
Yes, the kids need to know, but on my schedule, and not my W's.
Luke
well, that's nice to SAY here. What does your w think of your opinion on this? What has been said & by whom, to whom?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I did suggest going to the movie to d15 - simply asked if she was interested, and she was.
W is continually with d15 just now (this is sport break vacation week) - I need to find a time when W is alone and then talk.
Well, actually Luke, you need to MAKE the time.
Your w will might even be glad you did, but even if not, so what? How can it get worse than her leaving and blaming you, as is happening now, with your passivity. Don't confuse passivity with pacifism.
Maybe It's just easier to sit and watch life go by, than to steer it yourself. But you have spent 10 YEARS here in this mostly loveless M.
And now, within weeks of her leaving you AND taking your d, you are thinking about what you want to say...
Stop waiting to "find" the time. That's like hoping you "find happiness."
But you and I both know it's up to US, TO MAKE OUR LIVES HAPPY.
The points I want to make are: L, I'm trying hard to sound less cranky than I intend. But to be clear, you have NOT told her these (see below) things before, in the 10 years since she kicked you out of the bedroom?
And Or any of the times she'd bring up how SHE plans to leave AND Divorce you, as soon as D turns 16...
at which point you said...what? Nothing? I promise not to screw my head in the ceiling but I do think it's important to know.
o D is lousy, and I would rather repair our M, but given how bad things have been and are, it makes sense as long as you stress the bold^^^, I'd say okay.
That is not for you to be a jerk about it, but to show your w that YOU do Not want the marriage, as it is. Which is true, right?
If you say you want to stay m, in THIS marriage, your wife and d will lose whatever respect might remain. Luke, you are in an abusive toxic situation and that's a terrible legacy for your children. I rarely think divorce is "good" for kids, unless there is physical abuse or something really weird.
So Sorry to say this, L. But your m qualifies for this^^...I am concerned for your d's views on marriage and men. And for your son's role model of boundary setting I have to wonder, how will HE set or enforce a boundary in HIS love life? OR will he become super controlling to avoid being in the same situation? You know my kids were affected by our situation here, (and we reconciled!)
I really believe that Your d is Not benefitting by seeing what your w does to you or how you fear...and fear...and I feel the same about your son. I'm so sorry.
o we are both the kids parents, so share them 50/50 time-wise I hope this^^^ happens. It would be a lot easier if you felt more relaxed around your d. (Have you ever taken anti depressants or anti anxiety meds? I ask b/c I think you are totally appropriate around people in this country, but with your family, the things you say here indicate an underlying "condition"-- I can't wrap my head around.
How to tell your d how much she means to you can be done in several ways.
If there is something like a sport or instrument she plays well, and you hear/watch it, then tell her right in the moment that her playing is "another thing you love about her"...and you can do the same about spending time together. Like after the movie when you two discuss it, TELL Her how it feels for you to interact with her that way. (e.g., "D, I love your insights/humor/passion, it's one of my favorite things about you")
OR make the time to tell her if it does not come up (I mean, we're talking 2 minutes!)
You can say "I just wanted you to know that your happiness is THE priority to me."
(b/c how can I be happy when I see you being so sad??)
AND OR "I love you very much and wanted you to know how incredibly proud I am of how you handled--- 'X' & 'Y'...."
OR whatever seems authentic to you.
o we move in the summer and tell them just after school ends The sooner you tell your w this, the more likely it can be realized.
Otherwise your w is taking your d and leaving pretty soon. She has no obstacle in her way b/c to HER, it's clear you don't want to work on the m.
After all, She has "warned" you many times and she has "informed" you of what will happen to your family, for years.
And in response, I think what you have "done" is that you have silently "pondered" it... (I don't want to be unfair or unkind to you Luke. But that's how I see it. Please tell me if I am missing something).
so, Luke, don't be surprised if you have waited too long for it to make any difference (though having said it late, is better than never having said it at all).
Just Don't then make the claim that you "expressed myself and it did not work!", b/c it's not fair. Or accurate.
Communication that is delayed, is still really poor communication.
o we do this together. Well... we can all hope. But how will that look to you? I mean, tell me your vision of what "doing it together" means, please.
o the kids are number 1.
Luke
She won't admit that the kids are Not number 1. She may not care if they are,
but I think it's far more likely she has convinced herself that she IS doing right by them.
Be ready to reply to that comment when she makes it, Luke.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Just spoke to my sister, who suggested I make an appointment with W, at some neutral place, for an R discussion, 20 minutes.
This is making the time, as you suggest, MLC, I think.
Does this seem a good idea to you? I like it, because I would know when it happens.
I need to think about her thinking she is doing right by them. I think it is self evident that dropping the bomb for them during the school year is not as good as just after.
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
Just spoke to my sister, who suggested I make an appointment with W, at some neutral place, for an R discussion, 20 minutes.
This is making the time, as you suggest, MLC, I think. Does this seem a good idea to you? I like it, because I would know when it happens. Yes
I need to think about her thinking she is doing right by them. I think it is self evident that dropping the bomb for them during the school year is not as good as just after.
Luke
she may agree to the timing aspects, but she may feel as if you should have told her long ago...and you can concede that, but then get back to the issue at hand now
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
W is continually with d15 just now (this is sport break vacation week) - I need to find a time when W is alone and then talk.
Here's a crazy idea: go up to your W and tell her you need to speak with her alone. Don't ask her, don't hint at it, don't beat around the bush, just tell her.
-PM
M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
You said your W and D are together constantly. I just bet it won't be a total shock to your D to know the M has desolved. She may be concerned that you won't be involved in her life after the divorce. That is another reason I want to encourage you to do whatever is necessary to have one on one time with her. She needs reassuring, and she may have questions she wants only to ask you. Her mother will never take the place of you.
There is never a good time to tell the kids that their parents are getting a D. I understand how you don't want her school term affected by hearing about the D. She could resent you placing too high of importance on good grades, if she knew that was why you were not being open about the situation. I have known some girls who would have thought the father was more concerned that she received good grades more than her feelings. (I know that isn't what you mean, but it is how some kids would interpret it.) Have you ever thought that she might appreciate the fact you told her what was going to happen? Have you thought how she would feel if you talked heart to heart with her about how this was not your decision? Don't you think it would be important to her to know the truth from your viewpoint? Otherwise, she only gets her mother's side of the story, and she derserves to hear from you. Don't take for granted that she knows how you feel, Luke
I believe you need to tell your son, also. He needs to be told man to man.......father to son.
Quote:
What do I do to not hide from my d? I know what not to do (sit at my PC).
I'm not sure if you are answering your own question here or what, but if you are choosing computer time over time with your daughter, then I agree. But to answer your question a little further, did you take my suggestion about stopping by her room before bedtime, to say goodnight and see what her plans are for the next day? Which really is just giving an opportunity for her to talk to you.
When I was growing up, my mother had me dry the dishes as she washed them. I didn't always want to, but I didn't have a choice about it. Do you have any idea how valuable those times between us became? We used that time to talked about everything! For some reason, my mother did not do the same with my younger sister. To this day my sister says she doesn't know how to talk to Mother, and they have never been as close. I tell her it's b/c she was never made to dry the dishes.
I don't know if you see the point in what I shared, but I believe parents have to give the opportunity for the bonding experience with their child. That's why I offered suggestions about doing things together. In my case, I didn't particularly "like" putting the dishes away, but it was a shared chore my mother and I did every evening. Through our daily talks, my mother taught me about many things...and I shared with her my thoughts and feelings about whatever I had experienced that day. I feel my sister missed out. However, she and our father would go fishing together and they had bonding time. You just have to present the opportunity. How can either of you talk to each other if you don't have the opportunity?
As I watch a lot of young families rush around going from one kid's activity to the next.....I am wondering if they ever have a quite moment to spend one on one with that child. To me, that is about the most important acttion we can take as parents. But it does take action, Luke.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
So, I set myself a deadline, gathered my courage, and took the plunge, going upstairs and asking if W had time to talk.
I made 4 points:
o I don't like divorce, and don't consider it a good solution, but given how things are, said it is probably the best solution. W replied it is the only solution she is considering.
o we are both parents, I said, and expect 50/50 custody. It turns out that after 16 there is no custody, and the child is free to decide themselves. Child support is expected for full time students up to the age of 21. I don't like this no custody thing.
o I said we should tell kids and move in summer. W said that with all the work required on the house, this was not a given. We then talked about all the renovation, and she (fairly) said that most of the fine, quality work would fall to her, with me doing only the grunt stuff (she is quite a craftsperson and has high standards).
o we should do this together. She seemed to accept this.
o kids are #1. She said of course.
She again described me as a "project, who she perversely took on, trying to free me from my dad", against the advice of her friends. She reiterated that she really disliked being with me, and compared our R to that of my parents.
The discussion was civil.
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
"o I said we should tell kids and move in summer. W said that with all the work required on the house, this was not a given. We then talked about all the renovation, and she (fairly) said that most of the fine, quality work would fall to her, with me doing only the grunt stuff (she is quite a craftsperson and has high standards)."
STOP giving her credit and admiration. She certainly doesn't respect you to do the same.
"She again described me as a "project, who she perversely took on, trying to free me from my dad", against the advice of her friends. She reiterated that she really disliked being with me, and compared our R to that of my parents.
The discussion was civil."
You call that "civil"? She just insulted you and you accepted it. I'm practically yelling at you through the screen to stop letting her talk to you like that. You're so docile that it's frustrating. When she starts saying something like that, hold your hand up to "shush" her and tell her that you are no longer interested in listening to her chastising remarks and that you will be much happier without her controlling ways and then WALK AWAY.
You've lost the ability to show any sort of passion and self-esteem. She insults you CONSTANTLY and yet you take a Downton Abbey approach to things in being passive. What is it going to take to get you actually ANGRY at her?
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
