Barrybran IV - Three Years Forward, 30 Years Back

[Barrybran]

You're right and I know it. I know I've been like my Dad for a long time and I've fought it or denied it without really having the knowledge or tools to rectify it. There was an incident a few nights ago, the day my wife and I had the 'listening' argument, where my 3yo was refusing to eat dinner and my Dad was goading her into eating. From what I understand, it wasn't malicious or mean and I could be mindreading here as I wasn't around but I get the impression that a light bulb lit up in my wife's mind. Part of the truth missle (no dart there!) she gave me was that she sees a lot of my Dad in me.

Ever since I was a teenager I've used my Dad as an anti-inspiration. Sounds horrible, I know, but it's the truth. I've wanted to distance myself from him as much as possible. Throughout my adulthood, I've found that when I do the opposite of what he does or says I often succeed. He's a smart guy though which makes the situation sad. For some reason though, I seem to subconsciously get sucked back into 'his' way. As you allude to, I grew up with 'his' way and it's ingrained in who I am.

I function a lot better when he's not around. That's no excuse, I know, but I find myself to be a completely different person when he's around. I know that is something I should change now but my parents should be leaving tomorrow and I feel it may be better to ride out the next 24 hours and their visit in a couple of weeks (3yo's birthday) rather than rocking the boat. I can start afresh with my myself, my wife and my kids instead.

Off tangent slightly, I have struggled with expressing my thoughts and feelings in this process. On one hand, it's all about my wife and I'm to STFU and listen and validate. On the other, my wife has told me to say what I think and feel. My wife has also told me to choose my battles but I've lost confidence in determining which battles are worth fighting so I'm pretty much fighting none at the moment unless my wife isn't around. How I present my thoughts and feelings is now a major issue and I'm more inclined to shut up than to further alienate my wife. All in all, it's pretty bloody confusing because I'm supposed to 'man up' but doing so gets me into trouble.

[Lostforwords]

B,

I don't see your question as off tangent....Honestly I feel it is right on tangent.

For communication it comes down to one very easy thought for me.......First understand, then be understood.

Think about it like this....Your wife brings something up.

You listen (and hear...very important), You validate what she said, maybe repeat it back to her to confirm you heard what was said, then you explain your feelings, thoughts, opinion.

Now if I had a couple grand to wager....I would bet your conversations do not go like that. I would bet they go much more like this....Kinda of listen, state B's point, go with B's point. Maybe compromise sometimes. Do you see where this is going....You can be perceived as never truly hearing what is said...Your way is right, and everyone else is wrong.

Find the shoe story in the way of the superior man....It gives a good thought process for communicating without being controlling.

So now let's bring Mom and Dad into the picture. Here is your dad...always right and never wrong, living with you guys. It doesn't sound like your mom rocks the boat too much and generally just goes along with what dad says regardless if she feels he is right or wrong. Now you have said it yourself, you don't want to live like them. Think what your wife might be thinking about it? Now take it a step further....You communicate like your dad....So your wife is getting a daily reminder of how things may be with you in the future.

That kind of stinks doesn't it?

For you....I think the STFU is more about getting you to stop talking and start listening. Open your mind to what is being said with out judgement and then proceed. So I truly do thing you need to present your thoughts, feelings, etc to your wife....How you do it is more the controlling factor.

Does that make sense my friend? Understand that it going to take time to change your communication pattern. The first step will be realizing when you are doing it during a conversation. I suggest practicing with the kids a lot. When they are crying...ask what is wrong. Listen to what the say. Validate what they say. Then calmly and with love state your side of things.

[Barrybran]

Thanks LFW. It does make a lot of sense. My wife was good enough to let me know when I wasn't listening yesterday and expressed frustration about it.

Overall, yesterday was a good day. My parents are leaving tomorrow for sure. My wife also told me she won't be going to Sydney to see Katy Perry as we can't afford it and it was a "whim". On one hand I'm glad she's come to this realisation because it is out of our depth with the other commitments we have and on the other hand it's disappointing that she doesn't get to do something she wants to do. I told her that if there's something she wants to do to let me know and we'll put money away for it. I got no response to that.

Last night I finally watched the Notebook myself. Interesting movie to watch with a spouse who doesn't like you much at the moment. I really enjoyed it though.

[Barrybran]

I'm on my phone so I'll get back to the last post. My wife caught me out not listening a couple of times last night. I do want to change this and I appreciate that she let me know. I thanked her this morning though I forgot to apologise for it. My wife has been distant this afternoon.

Something came up that I'd like some advice on. My son was asked by my wife to look for a school book yesterday and he didn't do it. Today she reminded him so I asked him to do it too. He started to break down (his favourite ploy) citing that he wanted to play. My wife gave into him and off he went. This happens a lot. My wife is a pushover and I'm the one who enforces the rules.

I can't stand not being listened to. I also find it immensely disrespectful and unproductive when my wife overrules me in front of the kids. Even worse is that she wants me to be a man and disagrees with my decisions anyway. I understand that my wife doesn't like me right now and that the road home should be paved and smooth but surely this is a 'line in the sand' moment. Surely I should be standing up to my wife, putting and end to disrespect in front of the kids and suggesting that we support each other in front of kids and discuss issues when I'm not around.

Am I right or am I missing the point yet again???

[Lostforwords]

B-,

You are thinking in the ultimate still....Purely from the position of right and wrong or "draw a line in the sand" point of view. You are making something that is about your son into something about you.

I am going to tell you...parent to parent....Pick your battles. You are truly getting wound up about a six year old's library book. That is small stuff...big time small stuff. Now you can fight a war with your son now....get angry....maybe smack his butt. All under the guise of "He will learn my way, go about doing things my way, and he will respect me". Sorry brother....that isn't respect...That is eventually living out of fear. Then when the day comes that he gets into real trouble....He won't trust you to come and talk about the issue.

Believe me B....I did it just like you. Our pre-bomb house was just like yours. My son kept having issues...and eventually the issues turned to stuff were he could really get in trouble. He wouldn't talk about it, because our relationship was based on control and punishment....not love, trust, and respect.

How I would handle the situation now (understand hindsight for me....my kids are older now and in the day it would have been exactly the same as you did). The look request was already done (give directions once unless re-asked to give them again), I would then help the son look for his book (it is a better use of your time to help look for the book for 5 minutes than spend 5 hours being ticked off), state to your son that you are disappointed he did not get the book himself (You are disappointed....but you let that turn to frustration and anger), I assume this is a school story book and not a math textbook so I would tell him that if this happens again he will no longer be able to bring home school library books.

1) Request once - He has the choice to do it or not

2) Help finish the job if not done -No need to stress for hours over what can be solved in minutes

3) State how you feel about him not doing the job quickly

4) State consequences of what is going to happen in the future if this happens repeatedly

Do you see DB in how I would handle it bud?

As for your wife's response...Once again this is small stuff. Are you willing to go to battle with your wife over something your son did. Yes, some will say it was your wife's response and I will say BS all day long. This is about your son!!!!

The only thing I ask you to think about in regards to your wife...Is that you want to respond in a Sheldon way of right and wrong. Now isn't that something we are working on?

[Barrybran]

It is but I am really confused right now about everything. I have to state my feelings but when I do they're ignored. I have to make decisions and be proactive but when I do they're disregarded. My wife expects me to do things her way when her way is chaos and my way is usually organised. It's really confusing. I've had my confidence rattled with just about everything lately.

Admittedly, I hadn't thought about how I would deal with my son. My post was about my wife and yet there's another example of how I think I'm clear and yet you read my post as being about my son. I'm clearly not clear. The situation I described in the previous post was an example of the dynamics between my wife and I regarding the kids. My kids will do something, I'll step in and make a request, issue an instruction, ask a question, and my wife handles the situation in the kids' favour in front of me. I know I have to choose my battles but I do feel it will result in the kids becoming manipulative as well as my wife giving the message to the kids that "it's ok to disregard what Dad says. You can come to me." I find her behaviour extremely disrespectful and yet I can't cross her because I have to choose my battles, can't explain myself properly and I have to keep the road home paved and smooth. It's frustrating.

[LuckyLuke]

BB - are there any meetups in your town? It sounds like you might enjoy just getting out and doing something. The other events you mentioned are far away.

Your wife interceding in the kids' favor sounds like something important to deal with, and simple in that it is a pattern. I do think it makes sense at some point to talk about this with your W.

Luke

[Barrybran]

Thanks for your input LL. I live in a town of 3000 people so there are activities but nothing I've found that interests me as yet. I have focused on activities inside my home but I'm keeping an eye out for what is in the local newspaper each week.

[LuckyLuke]

Could you start an activity you like?

[Barrybran]

I've considered advertising a poker game but I'm not sure about that idea just because of the people in town. Adjusting to the people here is yet another thing I've gotta work on.