"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Nah, she's American too (I stay at MIL's house when I work in the States), but it could have been hej also.
It is amazing how she wants nothing but renovation labor from me - she or d15 have been making all the meals this vacation week (and I normally do a fair bit of cooking). She returned a little bottle of eye glass lens cleaner (I figured she could use it - it cost me nothing) - I guess she really wants nothing of me in her life. Oh well.
Gonna head out to see Le Weekend, about rejuvenating a marriage.
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
It is amazing how she wants nothing but renovation labor from me...
Is it?
-PM
M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
"I did ask my W what was wrong between us, btw, last Monday, but she wouldn't give me a good answer, just compared us to my parents. She said her definition of strength is not an absolute, and that I didn't need to take it as the truth. She has said in the past that I am weak and never fight back. Conflict avoidance..."
M:46 H:49 T:20yrs myD:22 H distant summer/12 H sleeping in b'ment: Nov/12 BD: Dec 2/12 asked me begin to move end of Jan/13 moved Jan 7/13 (left my stuff) "agreed" to "working on r" Mar 3/13(lipservice!)
"The Italy trip was supposed to be for s20 and myself only. I really enjoyed his masculine company."
That sounds extremely weird. YOU are supposed to show him what masculinity is. It seems od that you're getting that from your son.
"It feels like his girlfriend, whom we've met (and saw yesterday, via Skype, in bed next to him) would distract from this father-son time."
Your feelings about this are exactly the same as your feelings about your W and D's relationship. It's petty jealousy. Him having a woman in his life is all a part of growing up. You should embrace it and show him the RIGHT way to treat a lady.
Alot of the resentment that had built up in you is beginning to come out.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
HAH! Mr. Bond, I'm so glad you said that "extremely weird" part, but I think it's a figure of speech - as opposed to Luke mostly being around W and D, with all that estrogen.
Look, all, I enjoyed traveling with my son last year, just the two of us, without the complications that d15 and W often add. I'd like to repeat it, if possible. Perhaps it isn't. As it is, if s20's girlfriend were to come along, I think I'd be the odd man out, which doesn't sound so fun.
I don't get what you mean by the right way to treat a lady, Bond. His girlfriend? There is no other woman in the picture.
JonF - sorry to hear about the refiling. That must be tough.
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
Nah, she's American too (I stay at MIL's house when I work in the States), but it could have been hej also.
It is amazing how she wants nothing but renovation labor from me - she or d15 have been making all the meals this vacation week (and I normally do a fair bit of cooking). Is the cooking thing a problem for you? You seem hurt by their choice to cook. Why not go on in and chop something or ask if you can help?
And why not TELL YOUR WIFE you don't want her to monopolize your d's time. You are her father and you expect at least THAT part of your life to be respected by your w...but yes, L, you will have to say that and make eye contact and NOT look afraid, even if you are.
She returned a little bottle of eye glass lens cleaner (I figured she could use it - it cost me nothing) - I guess she really wants nothing of me in her life. Oh well. I don't get this^^. Sooo, Your w returned something to you... that you don't really "need" back. So what? If you meant for her to keep it, why not Tell her she can have it?
Why silently read into it? Oh Luke, you must start communicating and Stop all the mind reading.
Imagine if your d is mind reading like you do. She can only assume your silence is consent and or, apathy...really... [b] the need to SPEAK UP could not be greater or more important.
Gonna head out to see Le Weekend, about rejuvenating a marriage. [/b] Luke
Why go see this movie? How can it not make you feel lousy?
And Luke, do you have any friends there? I recall you have a few riding buddies, which I assume means good weather is required. So, in the winter, are you alone all the time unless one of your kids comes with you?
Thank God we've met or I'd think you were the most asocial person I know. But you are NOT.
Stop living like that's what you want (i.e. to be alone) or as if it's what you deserve, (you're witty and pleasant and interesting and quite smart).
Your job fascinates me too. I'm so stunned to see the guy who writes here and to know you in RL. What a contrast.
You have to start being the Real You or you may lose your kids without them ever knowing who you really are.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Hola MLC - I'll be in the US toward the end of April and going into May. Would love to have dinner again if you are up for it.
Various tidbits: W is still putting her paycheck into our shared account, is starting garden plants, and has been doing some wallcovering renovation (our Swedish lath and plaster walls have old-fashioned cardboard covering). I've been heat gun removing paint.
I don't think she and d15 are moving in the near future, given the above, especially the paycheck thing. I think it buys you a month or so, no more. You are pinning hopes on continued stagnation, but that isn't working. It's what you have done for 2/3 of your d's life and half your son's. ... I understand about the urgency of connecting with d15.
I hope so.
W and d15 are just biking to W's best girlfriend's summer house. D15 was not thrilled by this. I asked d15 whether she wanted to see American Hustle again, tonight, but no cigar, she said she had homework. Luke, I just gave you an example of another way to spend time with your d. But then you repeated the exact same pattern as you had before. You invite her to do something specific and without giving HER CHOICE...and then if she's not interested in THAT activity, nothing happens...and you are hurt. Plus, a lot of kids won't want to see a movie a second time, with their parent, on a weekend. Does your d have a lot of friends or a small close group, or what? How often does she go out with them?
I'll see Le Weekend instead, by myself. It sounds like it may be something to learn from. I have not seen it (but will) yet it SOUNDS like it's a movie you and your w should have seen 10 years ago. Now it'll make you feel worse and I'd NEVER take my kids to see something like that, in these situations.
It's as if you are asking the movie to do your communicating...are you?
Yes, I will ask d15 in the EE fashion - thx for reminding me of that. Well, you didn't just now...Please, get back on contract. And if it did not include making your needs known, consider adding that.
For all who may have been wondering: sometimes when d15 and I were alone together, just talking or me giving her a backrub (she loves them), as soon as W comes home, this ends, also from d15's side. Ever tell your w that? Why do you think it ends?
The kids and I used to ask each other: is Ma mad? She would be steamed up about something. So they faced that, or silence from you...one is powerful and the other is not. I can imagine the back rubs were nice but perhaps if you SAID more to your kids they'd KNOW how strongly you feel.
Then again maybe not. B/c If you assert something strongly but collapse and cave in within a minute when faced with an angry person, then the words won't be matching the behavior.
People believe behavior over words (and silence IS a form of behavior).
At 7am yoga this morning - when I came home and said good morning to W, she barely mumbled something back - seems generally annoyed again.
It really feels like W has commandeered d15 - looking forward to D, as then things may be cleaner and easier, also for d15. 1) Tell your w that you want some time with d and that you will ACT ON IT and do NOT ask her for permission or her thoughts. Period.
OR 2) MAYBE consider this approach...b/c as nasty as your w is to you, maybe she's not evil.
Maybe if you said "W, you know I love the kids. I want time with them. I hope you won't stand in the way of that b/c lately it feels like you monopolize d, partly to hurt me, which I'd hate to think.
In any event, I'll be planning some outings with her and wanted to give you a heads up....AND THEN LEAVE THE ROOM
What's the worst that can happen? She can yell and or say "NO"
at which point you say "I wasn't asking w, I was letting you know MY wants."
...and then ACT on them.
OR your w might say "D does not want to be with you" and you can say "w, stop projecting yourself onto the kids b/c it has harmed everyone here. I refuse to let you continue to pollute MY r with them and I will have time with my children whether you like it or not.
Is your (not so) secret fear that your w will tell you "d does not love you"?? B/C WE KNOW THAT IS FALSE.
Even if your d told you that she "hates" you, it does not make it so (BTW our d16 has said just that to h.)
It hurts. But it does not make it true. I also said it to MY father. Truth was I hated parts of him and was deeply hurt by some things he did, but I loved my father. When he died, and I spoke at his funeral, I realized how much I would miss him and I do miss him so very much.
Besides, it's not as if your w has set some type of marital example to the kids. What is she like around son's gf? Ever ask her what messages she thinks SHE sends?
She's quick to point out your failings but she might want to use a mirror next time she looks for flaws in relationships b/c successful marriages really do take two people, whereas divorces can on occasion, be caused by only one...
I also see that there are lots of meetups in Stockholm, so lots of opportunities to meet people. Thank God.
I understand about how to ask d15 -. I do think d15 feels pressure from W, and so will not apply pressure myself, as I don't want to make life harder for d15.
This^^,I'm afraid, is a LIE you tell yourself to pretend that conflict avoidance is a favor you are doing your d. It's just another way for you to remain silent.
Your d will NOT be "pressured" or hurt by you expressing the desire to spend time with her. God, I'd have LOVED more one on one time with my dad...
I've changed somewhat. The idea of taking one conflict at a time helped - made it seem less overwhelming. So what has changed? I mean, behaviorally, over the past 10 years, what do you DO or SAY that is different? And let's break it down two ways. IN your life outside the family, what do you do or say differently? And now, secondly, what inside your family, do you say or do differently than years ago?
I try to listen to my feelings more. I realize I can do things. Luke, read this^^^ again, and ponder what impression you'd have of a man with your skills, & marital history, saying this.
"I TRY" to "LISTEN" to MY FEELINGS" means....what?? And how on earth would that be manifested? Did that take you ten years? What were you doing before? "I realize I can do things"...means...what? That you are not stuck? Well, If you do not DO anything new and different, what difference does the realization make?
My fear is somewhat less, and I understand that it is within my head, my take on things. Luke, check out some TED Talks on youtube/Netflix. Two particularly hit me as maybe helping you. One is Shawn Achor (2012) and it's about positive psychology. I shared it with my d24 and my h. They enjoyed it a lot. Also SEE Amy Cuddy on how WE shape ourselves by not merely "faking it til we make it" but faking it til we become it.
She has research that demonstrates the change in our perception and then, yes in our PERFORMANCE ----by merely changing a few things in our posture and how we see ourselves. It's good empirical data. Example...
Remember that trip I took with my h and d's a few weeks before he was to go off to Alaska? It was a med conference in Palm Springs and h invited me and the girls to go. I balked! NO way!
I did NOT want to go ("why pretend to be a happy family if you are leaving us next month? You ought to Face the consequences NOW of not having a family, we won't pretend, I won't fake it!", etc.)
But my DB coach said to give the d's a good time with their dad, as it might be the last vacation we had as a "family" ...to put MY anger aside and let them have some TIME together....and also, btw, it might be good to give h something fun, loving and warm, to miss...
I knew it was only 4 days in Palm Springs, and for a lot of it, h would be busy.... so with my DB coach's help, I talked myself into a fake PMA...it took WORK on my end.
There was one moment I can recall when h was spotting some wildlife, and explaining something to the youngest d. He spoke a few minutes about the habits of a specific falcon. The angry part of me thought "what a nerd/know it all going on and on"....but the "FAKE PMA" me said to myself "It's good that h is so well educated; he's teaching our children something..." which was an existing thought that I would have suppressed, had I let my anger/pain rule.
Sure enough, after only one solid day of my "FAKE PMA" I felt more relaxed around h.
And by the second day I liked him. We ended up having a good time there and it was something he referred to later. IOW, he missed us and counted that as a warm memory. I acted differently and then I became the change I wanted.
Watch what Amy Cuddy says about this. You can do it.
I did ask my W what was wrong between us, btw, last Monday, but she wouldn't give me a good answer, just compared us to my parents. What does that mean? She said her definition of strength is not an absolute, and that I didn't need to take it as the truth. She has said in the past that I am weak and never fight back. Conflict avoidance... What would you have considered a "good answer" to that question? Seems to me she gave you some good intel there. You may pretend to not know what to do with it, but that's not true. You hear the same thing here all the time.
It's your fears and learned inertia that keep you stuck, not her "vagueness".
Now W has a lousy husband, back from the dump - My boss, whom I admire, deals with conflicts immediately. I should try to do the same. Forgive me Luke, but ^^^this is blindingly obvious. The fact that you have had a mentor available to give you specific suggestions this whole time, a resource you never availed yourself of before...makes me feel this way:
Yes, the window latch thing was a tiny positive. As a small bit of information, W vacuums without the usual tube extension and wide head, preferring to use the hose only, even on rugs and floors, on her knees, fwiw. "fwiw"....I don't see what it's worth. I mean, I don't know why how she vacuums matters at all. You don't think it's thorough enough b/c she does not use the attachments? Is that "an issue" you want to raise, now? OR is there concern for her knee (which occurred to me, of course).
The Italy trip was supposed to be for s20 and myself only. I really enjoyed his masculine company. I get this^^ ( I really do! I have a son and 2 d's and I get it) But given the limited time you have left with your d, and how much ground you need to cover with her, I'd hold off on the "manly" trips for a bit.
I would get your d to feel as relaxed around you as possible. That most likely means bringing your son along, AND OR a friend for her. "Buffers" if you will. It's not an insult to you, it's just reality for a lot of 15 y/o. And hey, I know it's not cheap.
But TIME with her is a goal that may get out of your reach soon... don't skimp now. BTW have either of your kids ever come with you to the states and hung out here and or, spent time with their maternal relatives?
Why not do that? Please do not use a reason from the past, as a reason for today.
It feels like his girlfriend, whom we've met (and saw yesterday, via Skype, in bed next to him) would distract from this father-son time. I assume your son is in love? And you like the girl, enough? So, it's not shocking to see why he'd want the week with her, correct? Which means At some point soon, you'll need to to include her in things so you two can enjoy time together, along with her.
Ideally (for him at this stage of his life), he'd be able to hang out with his dad AND his gf.
When I was first in love with h, he invited me to his dad's ranch in the Pacific NW. I did not know much about ranching or the Pacific NW and I sensed that his dad wanted dad/son time. But h made it clear that I was the one he planned to marry so my "FIL to be", got to know me. He was a VERY Challenging man, a retired Marine Corps officer and Vietnam vet (3 tours, lots of bravery, the man has guts) and drank a ton of beer/wine.
The thing is, FIL did himself no favors by wanting "private" time, b/c at that stage of our lives h and I were all about OUR time as a new couple. I feel close to fil now, but he was a tough cookie on me and every other female h's brother had over as well. Come to think of it, FIL IS LUCKY to have me...so true...
But I do understand not wanting to feel like the third wheel, which is why I suggested bringing your d as well. But if too much money is going to be spent, I can understand the hesitation. Feeling like a third wheel and spending too much are things I understand.
The masculine thing, not so much.
Plus it would get a bunch more expensive for three of us to travel, so I'd rather keep it just the two of us.
How is your healing going?
Luke
For some reason the blood supply to the graft in my shin bone has not solidified. That causes me pain, but also potential stability problems down the road.
There are some "gadgets" (bone stimulator for one) to speed the healing, that I'll be getting this week (for a month I believe) and if that does not work, God forbid, I'll need some sort of revision surgery.
These days I'm getting around on crutches and sometimes using a walker. It's better than the dang wheelchair. The mere appearance of me in a wheelchair has messed up my self image. But I'm a LOT more sensitive to the disabled.
If I end up needing another surgery on this, I will officially scream. But thanks for asking!
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I could use some help from you in understanding how your marriage has evolved over the years. I did ask my W what was wrong between us, btw, last Monday, but she wouldn't give me a good answer, just compared us to my parents. She said her definition of strength is not an absolute, and that I didn't need to take it as the truth. She has said in the past that I am weak and never fight back. Conflict avoidance...
This tells me that your W has lost pretty much all of her respect for you as a man and H because he just doesn't stand by his convictions nor fight for them. You've become like a wet noodle in the marriage and by extension as a father as well.
This all makes me wonder what was it that attracted your W to you in the first place. What sealed the deal for her in marrying you? I'd like to understand this part most of all.
From sitting here, I sense that your heart is good and in the right place. It is all there. Just seems like you are TOO accommodating to your W and the family dynamics seem to suffer as a result of this weak stance. Am I wrong here?
