Unlearning conflict avoidance - 10

[loualea]

Interesting reading Luke... 10 years on DB...what persistence and patience you both have.

15 year old girls are interesting when everything in their lives is fine and settled...with parents who are not relating well... even more so..but inside they want to be loved by both parents... the fun options others talk about would be more interesting...does she shop... most 15 years olds do.. and if you have the open wallet... my daughter liked she would be able to buy something..we did not do it often and there was a limit but I used to make the day be about her,, which was not usual for me... she still remembers... 18 years later..

what is EE.?
I think the fact that conversations about hopes and dreams fell out of my repetoire with my H ... and that is a problem...

[LuckyLuke]

Hi loualea,

EE is Essential Experience, one of the best things I've ever done. It is on the web.

Yes, d15 does like to shop (she said so when I asked!) and I am the one with the wallet. W has inculcated d15 with a certain Calvinist do not spend money attitude, while I am easier on that front. So thanks for the idea: I'll give daughter a shopping evening at a nice store in Stockholm (beyond - I am smiling at the irony, MLC - the short history of literature book I already have for her - she really liked Gombrich's History of the World book, so it is not an unfitting gift).

Yes, 10 years is a long time - people often talk about a marathon here...

Luke

[LuckyLuke]

Is it too creepy to make the shopping with me? Me buying my way into a few hours with d15 (soon 16)? Typically W and d15 would shop together. Just giving her money or a gift certificate seems impersonal, the last thing I want.

Luke

[MrBond]

"I came down to breakfast at 5.30 this morning, when W and d were still eating, so earning a glare from my W, which I ignored."

Mindreading. You don't know if she intentionally 'glared' at you out of hatred or resentment. If it bothered you, confront her about it. Ask her if there was something wrong rather than ALWAYS staying silent.

"2. the band my daughter plays in has a gig in Stockholm tonight, to which W did not invite or tell me about."

Why should she? It's not her responsibility to tell you everything. In fact, your daughter probably told her AND she could have just as easily told you as well. But for some reason she didn't tell you. Maybe she thinks that you wouldn't be into it. Like 25 said, start opening up and sharing things with your daughter. Why don't the two of you actually play music together? Sounds like the most obvious thing to do. Play something fun and not some classical dead opera piece which is what I would imagine you playing. Play something contemporary or timeless like the Beatles or whatever. Just make it fun so the two of you actually laugh. Nothing breaks tension better than laughter and I have the feeling that you haven't laughed in awhile.

"I will tell her that it was rotten not to tell/invite me."

Again, it is not her job to tell you. She also doesn't need to "invite" you. Was she planning to go on her own?

"I used to think that marriage was two committed people being good to each other and that that was sufficient to keep it alive."

It is. HOWEVER, marriages (like all relationships) constantly evolve and grow. You have to learn how to adapt and communicate with each other while it's doing so. Your W told you time and time again that she wanted to see some kind of passion out of you and you didn't rise up to it. You've stayed in the same place you were 10 years ago.

"Now it seems you have to watch out for #1 first, and be ready to get off the train. Wonderful."

You've got it incredibly wrong and acting very naive for someone who has been here so long. I'm not sure how much you've actually learned.

"A distant relative of mine called yesterday, asking how we were and why she, a former close friend of my W, and now a brain cancer survivor, no longer heard anything from W. She asked me point blank if we were still together, to which I replied, yes, but it is difficult. I asked her to keep this between us and also why she asked: she said that W had told her maybe 7 years ago that she (W) was thinking of leaving. "

Which you already knew.

[MrBond]

Actually you never did respond to say if you ever took her to cartoons or a light hearted Disney type flick. When was the last "fun" film you saw together or just had "fun"? Like having a snowball fight or just playing with each other?

[LuckyLuke]

Sorry for not responding to your question, Bond. Disney is not what d15 typically likes. She liked The Hobbit and Gravity and Avatar, but didn't want to see The Hunger Games movies (btw, I introduced the family to Harry Potter, the Hunger Games, the Penderwicks, more recently Divergent, etc. and read her and son the same author's equally good younger kids' series before that; reading to the kids was wonderful - when s20 was a teenager I read him zombie books to wake him up in the summer) as she thought it would spoil the books.

Opera? Yuck... rock or folk or ethnic for me, please. I am just listening to Ukrainian music - very nice, though I don't understand a word.

d15 did tell me about gig, last night. Of course I want to go, plus the location (a sympathetic cafe) sounds like my kind of place.

The marriage paragraph was me getting rid of emotion. I was upset - M is not easy and good intentions are not sufficient. When we married the pastor told me to turn the other cheek.

d15 and I watched a few episodes of the Office last week.

d15 suggested playing chess, btw, not me.

Luke

[MrBond]

"I was upset - M is not easy and good intentions are not sufficient. When we married the pastor told me to turn the other cheek. "

You're mixing up anger conflict with being the leader in your relationship. He meant that you don't argue in anger with your W. HOWEVER, you are supposed to lead the relationship. Your W practically begged you to do that. Unlike many of the others on here whose spouses don't even tell them when something is bugging them, your W told you repeatedly what she wants.

And just to be clear. She didn't want "conflict" in anger. She wanted passion from you. She wanted you to be a leader and be strong enough to stand up to her.

[LuckyLuke]

I have a hard time with leader - being or doing so, I mean. In certain contexts, sure, but interpersonal stuff is not my forte, to put it mildly. I just don't know what to do so often, and am typically #2, behind the boss figure.

Luke

[LuckyLuke]

Ways to connect to daughter, all activities done together, so verbs:

o cook
o garden
o bike
o hike
o ask what she would like to do, using MLC's father/daughter quality time phrasing
o talk to S20 together
o sports or work out
o play a game
o we read each other a book
o take her shopping
o eat at a restaurant
o go to a museum or cultural event
o play music
o talk French

More?

Luke

[MrBond]

"interpersonal stuff is not my forte, to put it mildly. I just don't know what to do so often, and am typically #2, behind the boss figure."

Then that is a skill you need to learn. The majority of women want a man who can take charge and be the leader. If you don't want to end up with a "domineering" significant other again, I suggest you start making this change.