Unlearning conflict avoidance - 10

[MrBond]

Did she have a function at school? Was there a reason why you couldn't go together?

[LuckyLuke]

Yes, it would not have worked to go together, at least as I understand it.

More action: told d15 about EE, just a little, that I had been to a class in being better with friendship, and showed her a final party picture of myself with 4 EE women on my arms.

Luke

[LuckyLuke]

One question: when/if W gives me D papers to sign (possibly this Friday already), shall I do as my sister suggested, and just say thanks and take them, not signing yet? I told W that I would sign, but that this would happen after the kids finished school.

D15 came home before W today, and we had a nice time. She showed me boxing moves she had learned at PE at school today, and then we did some math homework together.

We had dinner with W, who was mostly okay, but she then flared angrily when I mentioned being amazed by my relative (former good friend of W) surviving brain cancer. How strong and irrational the WAS's anger can be!

Yoga again, taking neighbor's W also to it, pleasant.

Action: first verse of d15's poem is ready.

Luke

[MrBond]

Why do you think the papers are coming in on Friday? Just do as your sister suggests. Don't sign them right there.

"We had dinner with W, who was mostly okay, but she then flared angrily when I mentioned being amazed by my relative (former good friend of W) surviving brain cancer."

What did she get mad about?

[25yearsmlc]

Luke,

I'm posting something you wrote here 9-10 years ago. It was in your 3rd year of "Dbing" but my point is, I do not believe you DBd here, with your wife. Maybe ever. It's a bit startling to read your posts from back then. Not b/c of how different you sound, but because of how similar you sounded then, to now.

BACK THEN, You wrote about a burglary attempt in which you confronted the would be burglars, who fled. Your w saw you briefly as an Alpha and you noticed that.

Then you went back to cooking meals & house chores for a pending visits, all to "DB" her.

But that's never been what she asked for from you. Sure, it's nice to help out in the home. It's fair of you, reasonable and if you like cooking, that's great.

But here's the thing. Your w has consistently told you far more than most WAWs do. She wanted you to make her feel like the female of the species. She wanted you to lead, to be strong, to fight back, and you never ever did. (Except for a few minutes that morning with the burglars...) You refused.

SO my question is why you don't admit that you chose not to change? Isn't it arguable that you have chosen to end the m, although she'll be the one to file?
At some level, maybe you wanted her to go...

So, dig way deeper. You knew what she wanted/needed and you stayed there- NOT Providing it. WHY?

For the kids? What do you think of that choice, now?

The "changes" you made vis a vis your w are pretty minute. I would not have noticed them if I were her, and had wanted a stronger alpha male.
Going from "one touch a day" to zero, (over a year's time??) would not make me think "Oh he's getting it! He's trying to be who I need & manning up"....

Luke, why didn't you just tell her you did NOT WANT to be more alpha? That you never wanted to change a thing in your core?

Sure, you'd be willing to cook more, or less, or paint a room but to change your approach to HER, well my friend, you were never willing to do that.
Your comments about the m and your desire for it, well It does not add up to me.

B/C when a mate tells us they want us to become "X/Y/or Z", we have a choice. WE decide if we want to become that, and if so, we learn how.

I don't believe you ever chose to become an Alpha male, but I think that was a choice you pretended not to make. I don't know why you didn't just admit it.

You came here under the guise of "how??" but you always knew that making a dinner for your w or children was what YOU wanted to do, not what your w was asking you for. Same for planning trips. It did not show leadership, it's b/c you love to travel. The way you would have shown leadership to your w would have been to get out of your comfort zone and show it.

I don't know if it means you fear change more than you fear abandonment, notwithstanding your claims to the contrary.

I'm here now to help you salvage what you can with your d.

LUKE what is the truth about what you want?

B/C here's what you said long ago. (I know you are different with your other R's in life, and that's great).

But vis a vis the person you married...what's so different now than before?

You have the answers...Start facing them.

[/b]
(2005)
My WAW recently stated her plan for our future: “finish (renovating) the house, get a job and get out”. As part of her execution this plan, she is separating from me in multiple ways and I wonder how to stop this seemingly inevitable slide. Her reasons for leaving are that I am ‘not strong enough, never fight back’ and that she can ‘always outsmart me emotionally in an argument’.

Here are the ways we are separating:

Verbally: for example, she refers to our bedroom (where she no longer sleeps) as ‘my room’, instead of saying ‘my husband’, she says ‘the man’, and ‘our bed’ is now ‘your bed’. Beyond being hurtful, this seems a clever way to establish ‘fact’.

Physically: she has not slept with or touched me for more than a year now, and oddly, we have gotten used to avoiding contact with each other. I initially tried to touch her maybe once a day, but there has been no returned gesture, and I have basically given up. This is amazing given that we each work mostly at home, have basically all our meals together, etc.

Emotionally: while being friendly enough, she doesn’t ask how I am. We are unable to talk about anything interpersonal anymore, but remain friendly enough otherwise. We can’t even plan vacations together anymore, and the idea of taking a vacation without her (but with the kids) seems like having to confirm my own death.

I have been giving her space, pursued only a little (make nice lunches, help her out with work supplies, etc.). Now she talks about making a major effort this summer on renovating the house, is working on getting a job, and now I feel occasionally desperate. What shall I do? These small steps pushing us apart feel like water wearing down the Grand Canyon. Is there anything I can do to stop this slow slide to separate lives?

(somewhat) LuckyLuke

[LuckyLuke]

MLC - I had a wonderful woman a long time ago, my W. I'd like to go back there, to then, where she called me a tender nickname, to where I had a companion, etc.

Reading what I wrote in 2005 is really depressing - nothing changed from then to now.

I'd like to keep the kind, nice, me (clearly insufficient for M!), and learn or change enough to get back there. If there were a class in alphaness I would go (*I would love any suggestions*). It might do something for my self esteem also.

I have changed, at least a little, sometimes asserting myself ("occupy space!" as my T said). I have tried to be stylish (I read it is an alpha trait). I have sometimes confronted my W.

Insufficient.

If some alphaness is required for a good R with a woman, then this does not bode well for the future. If my R with my d is lousier for my not being alpha, then this s----s even more. It makes me quite sad actually. And if my more alpha W gets the kids more than I do, then even more so, I would feel scr***d over in the place that hurts the most.

I have two visions of old age, one positive (with a woman who cares for me, socially integrated, happy) and one negative (bicycling from historical town to historical town, alone, until I get hit by a truck and it is all over).

Where is the class or training that fixes this? I do not want this pain.

Thanks for caring, MLC.

Luke

[LuckyLuke]

PM -

Background: Germans, generally speaking, once they have decided to be friends, consider this R long term and deep. My W adheres to the lighter, easy come, easy go, American model, and will cut people out of her life.

My relative is German, has recently survived (knock on wood) brain cancer, and considers herself a friend of my W. She specifically called to ask why W is no longer in contact.

So I tell my W that this relative called and that I was still amazed that she had survived brain cancer (I knew another man who died of it). W angrily says you already knew that.

Luke

[LuckyLuke]

PM - I just texted my W about last night, saying:

W, your anger at me telling you that relative called and that I was amazed to hear from her was uncalled for - Luke

L

[LuckyLuke]

Sorry Bond and PM -

I didn't properly register who the post was from -

d15's 16th birthday is tomorrow, and starting then, instant divorce is possible ('just add water').

Luke

[LuckyLuke]

Action:

d15's birthday poem:

First was Nickname1,
then came Nickname2,
Now its Nickname3,
this isn't easy,
Where will you go,
Who have you been,
Now that you are sweet sixteen.

Playing XX oh so well,
A concert artist,
Wow that's swell,
Needs some dudes
To look your best,
Like you wanted,
To be well dressed.

So I'll take you
To the spots,
Where clothes abound,
In polka dots,
Pick the day and off we go,
Let's go shop,
And see the show.

Hard to think that you're sixteen,
Where you'll go and where you've been,
With beauty, brains, a lovely head,
No wonder that you knock em dead.

Happy Birthday from Papa!


I can imagine that W will say she should go shopping with daughter, to which I will say no, I'll go. Perhaps d15 will refuse to go without W - not sure what to do then.

Thanks,

Luke