"I appreciate all your help, but also feel quite defensive just now, having taken some action (documented in my posts), such as:..."
"Clearly this is not enough. I do appreciate your pushing me, but sometimes feel like I am given no credit. "
Nor do you DESERVE any "credit". You're supposed to be doing this to appease YOU, not us. And to be frank, the reason why you haven't gotten any "credit" is because those actions have been few and far between. If you showed CONSISTENT growth rather than talking about what you should do, then you might get acknoweledgement. HOWEVER, you are a grown man with low self-esteem. A real man doesn't rely on others to boost himself up. And I'm not talking "alpha" or whatever, I'm talking about a man with a clear sense of his destiny.
Your W told you repeatedly what she wanted from you and you didn't deliver. I can tell you that if you HAD done so when all this first started, you would have seen her change as well. But your actions so far are coming off as resentment and passive aggressiveness. These interludes are not true change. They are just things you decide to do every now and then.
If you feel defensive, then do something about it. And why would you get mad at the board? You should be getting mad at yourself for not acting sooner. Stop blameshifting and take responsibility.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
I thought that it would not be pleasant to have a tense discussion during the birthday breakfast, so delayed it until d16 had gone to school. I realize now that it could have also been good to show pushback at the breakfast.
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
Perhaps you missed my post, but I did praise you for making an effort. I agree the birthday celebration was not the time to have a tense discussion with your W, and the attention should be on your daughter.
I am so glad your D liked your gift. And.....you got a hug!
At times I think if I look hard enough I may see a flicker of humor in you. Maybe a dry humor. My H has a dry humor, and it can crack me up at times.
In some of your responses to your W, I see a sense of sarcasism. But at this stage in the delapidating M, I believe your sarcastic responses carries zero weight with her. She says something to devalue whatever you are doing at that moment........and you respond with a dry (and sometimes, sarcastic....but not every time) remark. Then you turn and leave from her presence.
It's just my perception from what I see in your posts, but I believe you feel your statements to your W are much stronger than they really are.
Anyway, I do not disagree with anything the others have said on the subject. But I am beginning to feel like we are beating a dead horse. . I just find it hard to hope that you will ever be anything different with your W than you have been the past decade. You could.....but I don't think you will.
Frankly, I see no point in holding off signing the D papers. Why turn up the heat in he11? Neither of you plan to move right away and signatures on papers probably won't prompt any sudden change. However, it could free you from some obligation you seem to feel of enduring the torture she administers. Who knows......perhaps you would begin GAL while remaining there and not worry what she would think about it.
It may also be a time for your daughter to adjust to the idea her parents are D, yet she will still have them there under the same roof. IDK, it's just an idea.
Whatever you decide about the papers should be your decision to make. The M ended a long time ago. IMO, you should put your time and attention in the R with daughter. I still believe you should stand up to your W (and anyone else) who make snide remarks to you. I even made snide remarks and you chose to ignore it and not comment. Others have tried to stir you up to see some passion, of some sort. Perhaps you see this action (or rather...lack of action) as being more graceful or poised. In some cases, yes, but in most situ1ations I have ever witnessed where a man did not respond in a firm manner, he looked very weak. Yes, it takes inner strength to control anger and other negative emotions, but I don't think a person has to respond angerily. As long as it is said in a firm voice and with eye contact....and don't retreat.
I believe there may have been a time many years ago that your dry sense of humor could have been an avenue to handle smaller issues with your W. I doubt seriously it would have any effect now. She seems very repulsed by your very presence in the room. However, she should keep her opinions and remarks to herself. If she chooses to openly disrespect you (and especially in front of your children), you should spare nothing.....and put her in place. You are an educated man. She once said you had no street smarts. So, use some very educated words to tells her what a shrew she is. Or not........it's entirely up to you if you want to continue being her doormat. But the reason so many of us have pounded this in you is b/c you need to feel like a man! I would think it would be very liberating!
Anyway, as I said, for my part....in the future, I will try to just comment on helping you in your R with your daughter and son.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Shopping with your d can be a thing you do AND your w can shop with her another time. This is your dad/daughter time. Period.
You might not have to cut her out of it EXCEPT your wife makes cutting remarks like the one she made when you gave your D the poem/ & shopping trip was inside too? Was it the bag she objected to??)
Anyhow, your w got herself Uninvited, b/c she cuts you down in front of your d, so why on earth would you invite her? And it's appropriate to tell her this!
"W, you b1tch at me even when I'm giving D a gift on HER birthday! Of course it's harmful for her to see that AND I'm not going to put up with your carping at me anymore. Besides, What kind of mother puts her anger ahead of her d's joy?"
Hearing her mom cut you down like that is sh1tty to do at the time of a gift presentation. THIS gift took you time to make the poem and will take you more time-shopping. Your w was way out of line and didn't do your d any favors making that remark. So "clearly shopping separately makes the most sense." And btw, her guess about your gift was wrong, too.
I'm happy your d liked it. That's something that will "age well" as a gift for she'll keep it forever.
Luke, start separating funds soon if you have not already. Otherwise you'll be funding your wife's personal purchases as well as things she buys for others...til she's finally out the door. WE CARE LUKE...and I swear I'm not telling you to do anything I don't believe you can do. I believe in what you can do, perhaps more than you.
Hang in there b/c I think you may be able to salvage something with your daughter.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Bond - thanks - I thought more about what you wrote, that this is to appease me, and not others. That I don't need nor should expect 'credit' or gold stars or whatever from others - that doing so posits that mommy/daddy/other authority figure are still around and that I - immaturely (thanks SD!) - live for their approval.
I appreciate all your advice and time. Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
Yes, d16 and s20 are #1. M is probably a goner (anyone want to bet?), but R with W not necessarily so, plus I gain some self respect for pushing back, so nothing changes on that front.
The gratifying thing is that I really can push back, perhaps not in the best way, but I can! Yes, I probably overestimate the power of these pushes.
Humor? Dorothy Parker:
"I like to have a martini, Two at the very most. After three I'm under the table, after four I'm under my host".
I am paid in the US, and W has no access to account there. We have one shared acct here. I get a bonus in the summer (knock on wood), so will be divorced before then. If W stops putting her salary in our shared account, then so do I (most of it is in the US just now anyway).
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
W, your anger at me telling you that relative called and that I was amazed to hear from her was uncalled for - Luke
L
Originally Posted By: LuckyLuke
Action: criticism of W's remark given. Beard shaved off. Luke
Good. Your next step is addressing these remarks in the moment, when they happen.
It may be outside your comfort zone, but that is just because you are rewiring the circuitry in your mind regarding how you act. You'll get used to it and it will feel normal, probably faster than you think.
Keep working.
-PM
M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Oh I agree that the shopping trip should only be father and daughter. If you allow W to go, she will ruin it.
Since this shopping spree will be for daughter to get new duds, maybe at some point during the day you could suggest another trip for her to assist you with some new fashions to go with your new look (beardless face).
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
. I just find it hard to hope that you will ever be anything different with your W than you have been the past decade. You could.....but I don't think you will. 
