Gifts - DB v 5LL

[Barrybran]

I'm almost at the end of 5LL and I've learned a lot from it as well as DB/DR. I've not completed the quiz but from what I've read, I know that my wife's primary love language is receiving gifts. I've followed Sandi's 37 rules reasonably well. I've given my wife two gifts, both in the same week, and neither were well received initially. My wife did put the flowers in the vase, half-heartedly thanked me for them and added things to the water to prolong their life. She's also played and enjoyed a game I bought her, occasionally involving the kids and I as she plays. I had a clear conscience when I bought them so what she thinks is her business; I bought them because I thought she would enjoy them and there were signs that she has and signs that she'd rather not have received them.

I understand why DB suggests not to give gifts. Your spouse could see it a manipulative and pursuing and often, it could be true. Many people give gifts to get something in return. The premise of giving gifts is for the recipient, not the giver, and yet everyone at one time or another is sucked into the notion that they could earn 'brownie points'.

Chapman states towards the end of 5LL (p.237) that the "temptation is to give up, to stop speaking [the] love language (of their spouse) because it is not making any difference". He goes on to say that giving up "will confirm their conclusion that your efforts were designed to manipulate them". In effect, Chapman is saying that even when things are at their worst, continue to speak your spouse's primary love language and you'll fill up their tank. DB suggests to do more of what works and less of what doesn't work.

In the beginning of my relationship I used to buy flowers randomly for my wife and often wrote her poems. She loved both of these things; couldn't get enough of them. I stopped doing these things prior to each of our breakdowns and I've only just put two and two together that I stopped filling her tank. I know that if my wife and I were to reconcile, giving gifts will play an important part in that process as well as maintaining her loving feelings.

I understand fully that giving gifts to get something out of it will not work. It must be sincere and purely for the benefit for the recipient. My question is, is there room for Chapman's theory, to continue to speak your spouse's primary love language, sincerely and selflessly, for as long as it takes to fill their tank, even if that language is receiving gifts?

[labug]

I was drawn this post because of the title. I don't know your whole situation, so take this with a grain of salt.

You quoted Chapman

"temptation is to give up, to stop speaking [the] love language (of their spouse) because it is not making any difference".

and then wrote this:

In the beginning of my relationship I used to buy flowers randomly for my wife ...I stopped doing these things prior to each of our breakdowns and I've only just put two and two together that I stopped filling her tank.

Literally speaking, Chapman didn't say "start doing them a gain when things go south and that will make it all better" he said to continue to do them. I can't speak for Mt Chapman but that's my interpretation.

While I'm mind-reading, might your wife already see your previous gift-giving as manipulation as you did it until you got what you wanted and then stopped and then restarted to get back together and stopped again? Something to think about.

I would hold back on the gift-giving, it could be the worst thing for your R based on your history and your W's reaction with the last gift.

[Starsky309]

I tend to agree with 'bug.

Is there an OM in the picture? Might change my advice one way or another, but the gifts to me feel like PURSUIT, which is a big DB no-no.

And I say that as a HUGE fan of Chapman, who considers the "Five LLs" one of THE best 3-5 relationship books in the entire world.


Starsky

[Barrybran]

It's certainly possible my wife could see my previous gift-giving as manipulation given the "change their version of history" thing. I thought I'd ask as it seemed to challenge rather strongly what was widely believed here. It was interesting to read that Chapman supported the theories of 'doing what works' and 'patience' but refused to separate gifts from the other four languages.

I agree that anything I do right now would be viewed as pursuing. In saying that, I have no hesitation about doing something nice for my wife if I have a clear conscience about it. To me, constant gifts requires effort and that to me means pursuing.

Thanks for the answers guys. It's nice to read things that provoke thought.

[Barrybran]

By the way, my question was posed as a general question, not specifically for myself. I just used my situation as a point of reference and understanding. There will be a few people out there who have spouses with gifts as their primary love language and may face the same dilemma.

[gogofo]

I understand the dilemma. The W and I had our first 'talk' last week and while she was venting she stated my aversion to 'gifts' as an issue. Gifts is one of her top LL and even talked about how she was given flowers by an old janitor where she works. He said that she was someone who deserves flowers for no reason at all.

This stung quite a bit because after reading 5LL I know that she would appreciate them from me, if she wasn't a WAS. I know for sure now that would see them as manipulation and not from the heart. I had bought her flowers before she moved out, but was in such an emotional state that she felt I was trying to manipulate her.

"Change their vision of history" - While we talked she said that I never bought her flowers. Um yeah only a week and a half before you left, but we can forget that because they weren't perceived as a natural organic thought, only reactionary to how she felt about our MR.

WAS and their perception of things can be quite challenging.

[Bunches]

Hey Barry, I sympathize with the gifts concern. I think it depends on the type of gift. Flowers, in my opinion, will not be appreciated. Gifts is actually one of my 5LL. I've gotten away with this a couple times recently 1 went well and the other was reluctant. My W recently had a birthday and I had a gift sitting in the closet bought far in advance waiting on the occasion. She was emptying some stuff out of the closet to move and came accross it. Luckily it was something she loved and I didn't buy it recent so she loved it and really appreciated it. I was unsure if I would even still give that to her but it just worked out.

The second gift was a picture I had printed and framed for her new place. It was of our S and her sleeping when he was just a baby. I thought she would like it for her new place but was not received well because I went out of my way now to do that. If they can interpret as you going out of your way now whether it was your intention or not, I don't think it will be well received.

[Starsky309]

"Change their vision of history" - While we talked she said that I never bought her flowers. Um yeah only a week and a half before you left, but we can forget that because they weren't perceived as a natural organic thought, only reactionary to how she felt about our MR.

WAS and their perception of things can be quite challenging.

Did you buy her flowers (and other gifts) prior to her dropping the bomb on you? Is hers a legitimate marital complaint, or no?


Starsky

[gogofo]

Did you buy her flowers (and other gifts) prior to her dropping the bomb on you? Is hers a legitimate marital complaint, or no?


Starsky

In the last 6 months of us being together, yes and no. When I would return from working out of town I would bring a case of different wine, or exotic or unusual food to cook and try together. We are big into cooking and wine. One of the wines I bought 3 cases of was the same as a bottle we shared on the last night of our latest trip to Spain that we really enjoyed; to me this was a romantic gesture. So to me this would be a yes. But it could also be a no because it was a gift for us to share and not a gift just for her and her only.

The only gift I bought for her and her only during this time was biscotti for her espresso. We did not have any locally available to buy so when I found them while out of town I bought her a box of each of the 7 varieties they had.

To me these are thoughtful and loving gifts because I had to go out of my way to find these things at night after working 12 to 14 hours a day. To me it showed commitment and that I was thinking of her when I was out of town.

Before the out last 6 months it was off and on, but not consistent. I have an issue with gifts and even scored a zero on my LL test. My W will bring things up during our relationship and then if I reacted instantly I would be "penalized". This not only applies to gifts either. If she said we don't cuddle enough and I grabbed her and cuddled with her in bed she would be upset and feel I was only cuddling because she brought it up and that meant it was not "real". I played a game for years of trying to find the right time to let pass from notification to action in which she would actually appreciate the action, not feel that it was forced. I never could figure it out quite well. It seemed if she brought it up, the first time or two the action happened she would feel it was forced and not genuine.

The last flowers I bought her I had timed out and planned for the day she submitted her last finals paper. I wrote her a card of how proud I was of all of her accomplishments in work, her classes, and dealing with me and my project. I did not understand her emotional state at this time and the flowers must have been viewed as trying to manipulate her.

Should I have been able to notice the things she thought were missing before she brought them up, yes. Should she have appreciated my actions as real and genuine, yes, but these are my feelings and opinions.

My issue with presents is weird, but I hate receiving them. I would rather people make me cookies or give me a warm hello than to purchase presents for me. They make me feel extremely uncomfortable. She did not like or understand this about me and thought I should just learn how to accept gifts.

I also put way too much thought into buying things for my wife and stress way too much about it. I would not buy her a lot of jewelry as I felt it was cliché and did not always show thought. If I bought her jewelry if would be something unusual that would match an outfit she had or a scarf that I had bought for her also. It seemed too easy to walk into a store, point at a big diamond, and walk out five minutes later. She would also do the Christmas shopping for her dad and buy her mom jewelry at his direction. In my opinion when people do this it comes across as not caring and they will just buy them something shiny and that will make them happy.

In my stupid mind when buying gifts it had to be well thought through and meaningful and useful (in my mind). Flowers seemed a bad idea because they die. etc. I was judging the gifts by my own criteria, not the person I was buying them for.

Now when she looks back at our M she is remembering words and descriptions I used about how I felt about gifts. Words like stupid, waste of money, dumb. Yeah I was a real wordsmith.

Gifts is an issue that I have been working on for years, but with the books I have been reading and the focus on myself I have been making more progress in this area than I have in the last 18 years.

A big part of the issue comes from my father being in a accident and wheelchair bound for 4 months and almost having to declare bankruptcy and being grossly in debt when I was 15 years old. We almost lost everything, my father was self employed and the only worker and was unable to work while we had outstanding debts to supply houses, etc. Christmas came 3 months into this and I received a hunting rifle that I wanted that was quite expensive. I had never felt so selfish ever in my life. I remember being excited and then soon after being almost physically ill about the guilt I felt because my parents bought me something so expensive during our financial issues. I still feel sick to my stomach typing this up. I hate this feeling and it comes back up when I receive gifts. I feel there are people much more worthwhile to give gifts to. But this is my issue that only I can work out. I should have been more open about it with her, maybe in the future.

[Starsky309]

Wow, ok -- that explains a lot. I would say that from my view in the cheap seats, for a guy who's LL is decidedly NOT "gift-giving," you did pretty damned good by her.

She strikes me as a bit of a princess, to be honest with you, and one whom no matter HOW many items on her complaint list you might address, she's only going to come up with NEW complaint hoops for you to jump thru.

But I could be wrong.


Starsky