Crimson, several have asked why you continue to beat yourself up all this time later. Have you gone through the process of forgiving yourself? I struggled with it myself as I accepted my share of the blame with regards to the demise of my marriage, but ultimately found the peace and clarity when one does what God calls us to do... to forgive ourselves.
Here's a little bit on forgiveness:
Forgiveness is not: Forgetting: We do not pretend the event never took place. We learn from it and move forward. Reconciliation: Reconciliation takes two. Do your part and rest. Condoning: It is the opposite. That which you condone you do not denounce as wrong. That which is not wrong does not need to be forgiven. Dismissing: We cannot dismiss that which amounts to nothing. It is because something is grave and substantive that it must be forgiven. Pardoning: A pardon is a legal transaction that releases an offender from the consequences of an action under the law. Forgiveness is a personal transaction that releases the offended from carrying the burden of the offense/offender and releases the offender from concern of personal retribution. Restoration: It often takes a lifetime before you reach the instant where there is restoration. Forgiveness is an instant that happens continually throughout your lifetime. An emotional decision: Forgiveness is an act of the will…not a feeling in your heart.
Forgiveness is the decision to continually and purposefully commit to being driven by love (not justice/vengeance) in every attitude and action toward the one who offended/hurt you. In this case, the offender may be yourself.
All the best,
-PM
M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
I have more to say, but I really like this posting to you from Claire...think about it a bit more, okay?
More later, (of course!)
((( )))
Originally Posted By: claire7
You know-- I understand this feeling. It hurts your pride, maybe, that this was not your choice and that no matter how great you are, she doesn't want you. That is one way to look at it.
But there is another way to look at it. Maybe she is not all that great. Maybe you deserve someone better. You'll never get the satisfaction or "triumph" over her. But-- you might just end up with a really awesome happy life, a partner who deserves you, etc... if you can take a breath and let her go. Say good riddance. It may be the hardest and best thing you'll ever do.
While I still retain hope for your wife to awaken, that is based on 3 things.
1) I really think highly of you, and cannot believe another woman like your wife is blind to that.
2) I don't think she's blind to it AND she knows your son loves you and that pulls at ALL women to some extent...and
3) your wife DID want to reconcile. A part of her still loves you...
Others should add/detract to what I'm about to say b/c I am NOT sure I'm on target but this is how I have seen your situation for a few days now...I want your ex w to have SOME insights...and I cannot control that at all. But I wonder if your words matter to her...b/c if they do...then-
I want you to somehow communicate some of what you have said but it would have to be so brief that it's powerful.
First, maybe your L can remind your xw's L that the pending payments will be dropping but make sure your lawyer tells her L about the "above/beyond" that you've done and did not have to...
As for what YOU might say to her about who you were and now are, maybe a comment or two about knowing your changes are real and
while you're sorry she can't/won't concede that AND OR consider making adjustments at her end,
you now have to move on like she is, and there MAY be a decrease in some contacts but you'd ask for HER understanding-- that despite what she keeps telling herself, (i.e. her rationalizations and the "Supportive" commentary from her uber wonderful loving father about what a scoundrel you are),
you really are hurting and you realize NOTHING you do or say will change how she sees you, so you need to decrease the contacts, while you also keep thanking her for being a good mom to your son...
See...here's the thing Crimson. You really have done your best, persistently. It is becoming clear now, that the remaining obstacle(s) to reconciling, apparently are all on your ex wife's end.
That means you can go forth now, hold your head up, knowing that you gave it your all...and be at peace. Leave it in God's hands now...
HE knows you, and he knows all your hideous flaws and faults and...
HE loves you anyhow. US TOO!!
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
When the student its ready, the teacher will appear... Even after all this time the sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me." Look what happens with a love like that,It lights the whole sky.
Hi folks. Took a day or so off from posting to try to stop my head from spinning and to let all of the kind words and advice that I have received here soak in a little bit. That you all for pushing a little strength and inspiration my way....Wonka and PM thank you for your posts.
25, glad you chimed in and I hope you do again soon. Here are some thoughts on what you posted. Keep in mind that I am responding with a pretty reasonable grasp on the reality of my situation. While I still retain hope for your wife to awaken, that is based on 3 things.
1) I really think highly of you, and cannot believe another woman like your wife is blind to that.
2) I don't think she's blind to it AND she knows your son loves you and that pulls at ALL women to some extent...and
3) your wife DID want to reconcile. A part of her still loves you...
To your point #1: I am beginning to accept what people on this board and in my life in general are saying about me be a really good guy/catch that has come a long way in terms of personal growth. My good friends have noticed it and comment from time to time. Here is the clincher: not long after the bomb was dropped and XW and I were on "decent" terms and took S to dinner together. I remember telling her at that time that I did like the feelings that I got when I thought about her dating other men. She said "It's not like there are a lot of good guys out there like you" - I remember wanting to say "I AM RIGHT HERE!!" in front of you! I love you! I love our son!. So maybe on one level, 25, she thinks highly of me - MAYBE....big maybe. But somehow any positive feelings she may or may not have for me seem to be easily short-circuited or erased for whatever reasons. Maybe just for the simple fact that in this "tale" that has been spun I have been cast in the role of villain in her mind and she just can't move me out of it right now.
To your point #2: Last spring when we were trying to R and she was back at the house her mom came to visit. Her mom and I have always had a pretty open rapport. In a candid moment when XW wasn't around her mom said "She really just likes watching you interact with S. It's what really trips her trigger." That meant a lot to me at that time because at least it validated that she realized my relationship with S was different now. She knows S loves me, and I love him right back....more than anything in my life. Still, she seems to be unmoved by that OR she thinks it can be synthesized by introducing OM into his life and letting him interact with and get to our S - maybe. I remember when she moved back to the house she said about her time being single "I just wanted to meet someone that would say 'I like you....and your son is really neat, too". I looked at her and said "I've been saying that this whole time". And unbeknownst to me, that statement really hit her...she mentioned it a few times after that.
So I DO hear you on the "son" part of the equation....loud and clear. In fact, I remember DISTINCTLY earlier on you say that women find the father's of their children sexier when they are close with them. Not sure why, but that stuck with me quite a bit. Notwithstanding, like I said - maybe she is trying to create that with OM right now by introducing S to him. Is that possible, ladies?
Either way: right now the closeness and bond that I have with our son is very evident to her and others and in terms of her feelings about ME -- it would seem to mean absolutely ZERO.
To your point #3: Yes, she DID want to reconcile a year ago. But do you really feel like a part of her still loves me? I mean, I surely don't - but I am by no means the most objective judge in this matter. Part of me feels as if she came back just to try to use our embryo (as you may recall we set off down that path and she literally called it quits again the day before the process was set to start...we even had all the meds shipped to the house).
On her way out the second time she said "My feelings just aren't where I think they should be by now"....we had been under the same roof for 3 months. And that she "felt like we were slipping back into old habits"....she never really elaborated there. But I know this, two days prior she was still moving things back into the house and we were still sleeping together.
25, IF there is a part of her that still loves me (another big "if") it is buried way, way, way, waaaaaaaaaaay down deep under a pile of bad memories/feelings on her part and is being suffocated by the promise of a better life with OM or SOMEONE else.
Like I alluded to before above....this story needed and STILL needs a villain. Because if she can look at me now with thousands and thousands of dollars spent, the families and individuals hurt, the things we have both had to give up, the pain, the tears, the anguish -- and then say "I've made a mistake" - it COMPLETELY unravels her reality. Make sense? It's like the OPPOSITE of canceling a wedding the day before. She's vested in her decision to the point of where turning back now would make her look...well...foolish in her decision to leave in the first place.
Hence, I HAVE to continue to be the blame for things. She CAN'T see good in the three of us together as a family. She CAN'T picture a good future for all of us. But more importantly, she CAN'T look inward and say "here are my contributions to this situation and I maybe...MAYBE made a bad decision." How do you do that in the face of a war that you yourself declared?
At this point, I don't think she is able to. And as a result she has to cling to the narrative that I am "beastly" in some fashion. I mean, really - I wanted to save the M because of child support and alimony?? That has never been who I am. I'm telling our S that "mommy doesn't want to go to this bday party with us"??? She believes that....or she did. So not me.
I had dinner with someone I dated a bit ago in the wake of all of this. She confessed that part of the reason that she was uneasy was that she could see absolutely no reason why XW would not come back....and couldn't even believe she left. And trust me, I did not paint myself as a saint. She said "it just didn't make sense" to her. Wrap your brain around that for a second.
I've been thinking about you a lot today, Crimson. My personal mantra has been, "Become the spouse only a fool would walk away from." It sounds like, in many ways, you (and even your friends and family) feel like you've become that kind of spouse. So, if she still walks away... what does that say about her? (It seems like it says a lot more about HER than it says about YOU.)
As wonderful as she is, she is by no means the only one out there. You may never be able to understand her actions... they just may be totally irrational.
"It's not like there are a lot of good guys out there like you" - I remember wanting to say "I AM RIGHT HERE!!" in front of you! I love you! I love our son!. So maybe on one level, 25, she thinks highly of me - MAYBE....big maybe. But somehow any positive feelings she may or may not have for me seem to be easily short-circuited or erased for whatever reasons. Maybe just for the simple fact that in this "tale" that has been spun I have been cast in the role of villain in her mind and she just can't move me out of it right now.
Crimson, her not loving you doesn't make you a villain. It doesn't make you anything more than you allow. About the comment from the girl you dated who can't figure out why W left, I know plenty of good people in the world that I don't "love" probably would never be in love with.
You twist yourself in knots trying to make sense of all this and the bottom line is, it may never make sense to you, it doesn't have to make sense to you, it just is.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Bug - I am not saying that her not loving me makes me the villain. Rather, I am saying that in her universe with this story I simply AM the villain - and that creates a shield from personal accountability and self assessment - which is a hard thing to do. That's just my take, I am not speaking in absolutes.
I have all but relegated myself to the fact that this won't make sense to me and I am trying to maintain faith that something larger and better is at work and down the road for me. After the OM revelation I am doing my best to just hand it all over and walk away. I have gone dark -- way dark. I do not initiate any contact and I don't really respond much to any of hers if/when it comes about.
I'm always up front with you, Bug. I don't want to change who she is....but sure, I wish I could change her heart. I blather on a lot here, but I am not pursuing or engaging her in any way whatsoever. Pulling back and going dark is about the best I can do right now. And to me, that is a big step. But sure, she is still on my mind a lot - but I think it is because I am grieving right now....maybe that is to be expected.
