Umm........ I was thinking of listening in on her talking to him and as soon as I hear when he plans on coming, taking the girls on an impromptu camping trip! No, actually I'm really not sure about this one. I was thinking that telling her I'd rather they not come for a visit would just give her an excuse to be angry and feel like I'm trying to control her or worse, stop her from having a relationship with new, improved dad. There are days where I feel I could talk to her and she might be ok but on days like today when she seems to want to find fault with everything I say or do I can't see how anything I say will help keep him away.
I actually have thought if I were to try and make it seem like I'm all for him coming and being with the kids, she just might change her mind and say he's not coming but that only works on sit-coms. So, not sure CB. What do you think?
Actually, I think your last idea is an interesting one. When my W was planning an ill-timed (for a bunch of reasons) girls weekend with her new "grass is greener" recently divorced bff, every bone in my body wanted her to not do it. My first instinct was to tell her why she couldn't go, then follow it with subtle comments noting my disapproval (my typical M.O. in those situations) but my IC advised me to do the opposite and tell her "wow, that sounds like fun, go and don't worry about a thing at home." Caught her off guard for sure. The tough thing was sticking to that philosophy, including during that weekend when she was gone, but I was glad later that I did.
IDK, in your case my first instinct would be to individually confront her dad and lay down the boundaries that I expect and make clear what I am willing to do to protect my family, so that we are clear. But, I think that is likely to have the opposite effect in your situation given where things are. And, that is an instinct, doesn't mean it is a smart idea.
Sorry for thinking as I type this, but what about saying that you are happy for your D that he is coming but calmly tell her that you have some boundaries, explain them, and if he crosses them, don't expect you to sit by quietly and not confront him? For example, if he insults you, your D, or your W, you are going to say something back?
Have you and her "dad" ever talked one on one since this started?
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
One other thing. You said your D's are worried about speaking up because W is on the edge of leaving. This implies that they think they have control over this to any degree, and by implication, that they had something to do with causing it in the first place. This is the guilt that has burdened your W all these years and is so devastating to the kids in divorces. If you haven't broken her, they sure haven't, but do they know that?
Just an outsider looking in, but it seems to me that your d's are old and mature enough that talking to them openly to let them know that it won't matter what they say to W's dad if he insults them, W's decision isn't their fault and they won't influence it?
CB
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
Thanks CB. I have held my tounge with FIL for years due to the fact that every time I have responded to his vitriol in the past W has defended him, no matter what he says! The day I met the man before we were married he came to see us with his OW (now new wife)and at the time my W was going to college full time while I worked so she could finish and we get married. This was the first meeting and I wanted it to go well. I came home from work and they were there. From the start he was insulting to my W! At one point he said that she was only getting B's and since she wasn't working she should be getting all A's and what a disappointment that was!
I was ready to get up and punch him! I remember standing up walking up to him, looking him in the eye and telling him what a [censored] he was to say such a thing and how proud I was of her! He just sat there with this awful grin on his face. Needless to say, that about ended the evening and they left. To hear my W talk about now, he was "testing" me, making sure I was worthy of his daughter. Bull!Speaking to this man who congratulated my W when she opened a secret bank account, telling her how "empowering" that was and then telling her all the ways to keep it hidden from me wouldn't do anything positive. Of that I;m certain.
The attitude that you describe has been the one I have tried to maintain for months now. The time where my W went to a bachelorette party that her boss from work needed her to go to with a bunch of much younger, single women I was "sounds like fun", etc. When I got a text less than 3 hours later from her that she was too drunk to come home and she was spending the night but it was "all good" as she was with "all my new friends" (it was a drunken text that was hard to understand)all I said was OK, see you in the morning and the next day acted like I couldn't have cared less that when her kids asked where mom was I had to tell them in less that 2 hours out she had drank so much she wasn't able to drive home. My 18 year old laughed and said "can anyone say Mid-life-crisis"!Remember she has never been a drinker or partier. She's always going on with my 18 year old about "staying in control" and how dangerous drinking too much is for a woman.The next day she was showing the kids and me all her pictures and Facebooking about it! Again, nothing from me but "glad you had fun".
As for the kids and what they see...the hardest thing is that my youngest thinks she is going to go to the school her sister is grad. from and since her mom "needs" to leave us and be on her own, there is no way to afford this. I have tried to let her know that this is a possibility but I also hold on to hope that her mom will come out of this in time. Until their mom left the bedroom about 6 months post B-day, I didn't talk to them although they knew something was up. At that point I made the choice that I had to talk to them and told them that their mother was planning on leaving, that I have tried to work things out with her and still am. That she is going through a lot and dealing with it the best she can (a lie in my mind at the time but...)that there was still a chance that she would change her mind but I can't say if or when that would happen. At that point I had bought into the thought that if I just was a "better" husband, if we did things together as a family and I changed the things she was saying were the reasons she was unhappy with her marriage, we could work things out. I didn't realize it was a MLC or what that meant. We had gone on the first family trip just a few weeks before and all of us had a good time, even my W. But, as you know, once they get back to the day to day, they go right back to having to run!
Since then they have watched their mothers behavior, heard the things she says, watched her "forget" their school meetings, leave them alone for weeks, not be anything close to part of this family and know she isn't normal. At first my oldest used this to get away with things and working her mom against me and vise versa but since we have become closer than ever. My youngest tells my W all the time, when she complains about us being on her "bed" (couch in LR)that her bed is "in there" pointing to our bedroom. They hate that most of the interaction they have with her is when she gets angry and yells (she can't seem to just talk when they need to do something like clean their rooms, it's always yelling!). As for them being able to have an effect on whether she leaves or not, when this first started I made the mistake of telling them to give her space, don't get her angry, etc. but again, I didn't understand that she was in MLC but since I have tried to let them know it's not about them and there is nothing they can do to effect what she does or doesn't do. It does make them both angry but I've stopped trying to intervene.
The only time my wife has cried when we have talked about this sitch has been when the girls have come up. She at first said she loves her kids and doesn't want to hurt them but needs to be on her own. Since then (after going to visit her dad) she has said "We all hurt our kids, they'll get over it" and seems to care less and less how her choices will affect them. Again, there have been times when she seems to be coming out a bit, maybe coming out of replay but then she talks to or sees her dad and she goes right back to where this all started. May be that the thing she most wants to replay is her relationship with her dad.
I also think the sitch with her grandmother is having some effect on her. I have seen 3 different personalities come out in the last week to ten days. One is a brat that seems like a teenager who gets angry if you tell them something they may already know (like the name of an actor on a TV show!)almost like my 14 year old! One is like the old W, grateful for my help with her GM and tearing up when she thinks she may have helped her (like when she had to tell her her GF who has been dead for 30 years wasn't coming to get her and take her home). The last one is the hyper efficient, professional woman who talks about how much she helps her patients and how she is a better worker than the other people she works with and how they over-work her and expect too much. Have to be careful with this one as if you say anything like maybe they do overwork her, even if just agreeing with what she just said, she will defend the company she works for. All you can do is listen and nod.This part has been hard on the kids and when the teenager came out last night they retreated to their bedrooms, FAST!
While I have spoken with the kids, W has not and has tried to pretend nothing is happening, no matter that she has to know that's not the case. She said on B-day and since that she won't talk to them until she is ready to leave. Of course she has asked them about how they would like living in a different town or going to public school but never anything about it being living with just her but they aren't stupid and know what she is saying. I guess it's part of her MLC that she thinks she can do and say the things she does and they don't notice.
I have some time to decide what to do about her father's visit but I do need to decide how to handle it soon. Thanks for the input CB, I am grateful!
There are some options to consider about FIL's impending visit.
1) Ignore it and make no comments. 2) Call a family meeting with W and daughters to discuss concerns about FIL's visit 3) Oldest daughter goes to her BF's house and you can send your youngest for a sleepover at someone's house 4) Talk with W about your concerns 5) Just have a oh-hum attitude about FIL's visit and comment, "Oh okay...so he's coming on xxxx dates, right? Thanks for letting me know. Do our girls know this? If not, then best to let them know." then right back to your own thing
Funny, one thing about MLCers is that they hate having someone say "no" to them. That raises their hackles BIG time and they'll try to run over you with spewing or just going right ahead and to that very thing just to show you that you're not the boss of them. Very teenage outlook in rebelling against everything: spending patterns, staying out at all hours, hanging out with the "wrong" crowd.
So you have some options before you to think over in the next few days. It is up to you on which one you want to pursue.
Thanks Wonka, you pretty much came up with the same list as I had! Spoke to youngest daughter on way home from school yesterday. I asked her if she was aware that FIL was thinking of coming later this month. She said "I heard mom talking to him and had hoped it was just a nightmare but it wasn't". (How's that for a reaction that her grandfather is coming? Tells you a lot about this man!).
I asked her what she said to her mom and she said that she didn't want to tell her the truth as it is nice that she gets money from him on her birthday and such (unlike her "waste" of a sister) and didn't want her mom getting angry so she just said ok. I told her that she would end up being alone with him and his W as she would be out of school and her sister would probably go to her bf's to escape. This freaked her out and she asked if she could go spend time at a friends house! I told her maybe she needs to be honest with her mom about how she feels but she really doesn't like that as she thinks her mom would just tell her she's being rediculous and she's right.
She also wants to go a stay with my parents at their hotel when they come for her sisters graduation because she doesn't like the way her mom is acting and knows when they are here she will be even more tense. God, I hate this sitch!
On the W front last night she had to go see her GM at the home because she was confused and making a fuss. I offered to go with her and she thought about it but when she said no, I let it go. In the past I would have insisted on going to help out but she wants to be on her own so I just let it go. She came back upset and teary eyed but feeling she helped. This is not a good sitch as far as her MLC goes as its just another reason for her to feel time is short and has said several times that she's afraid that she will lose her mind just like her GM and it really upsets her. Just another reason to hide in the tunnel and feel like she needs to everything she feels she missed out on now before its too late!
She has been working long hours this week and I have been taking up the slack but I'm starting to feel like that may be the wrong way to go as this is part of my past history with her, always coming to the rescue when she gets stressed! Hard thing to be supportive but not go too far and be used and her feeling like I'm always there to "save" her.
Still getting different personalities lately with the pissy teenager who wants to rebel being the most common. I think it's time for me to get some GALing in but this weekend will be hard as my parents are coming next week and there is much to do to get ready!
No kidding, Matt. I think unless there is alcoholism, or physical or mental abuse, there should be a law that you have to go to counseling for one year before you can even file for divorce. This was on TL's site but transported it here - didn't want to hijack her site:
Like you, I was very serious about my vows -even said to my H that I saw this as the 'bad' times our vows referred to, and all he could do was say he was far beyond that. Well, when the heck did he ever mention that when he was feeling that way? Geez, we are their SPOUSES, we should be given some respect and be notified of their dissatisfaction. Otherwise, how else are we supposed to address these problems. If you don't know it exists, how are we supposed to know?
I just got done posting on my site and it ain't pretty....
Me 59 H47 M12 T22 No kids BD&S Apr 2,2013 - ILYBINILWY Filed 2/12/14 OW 11/13 The Universe always strikes you at your weakest point because that’s what most needs strengthening." – Joseph Campbell
Sorry, I kind of screwed that up - the line about posting on TL's site was supposed to be the first line to show up . . oh well. Too much wine tonight which probably accounts for the post on my site.
May have to quit that for a while.
Me 59 H47 M12 T22 No kids BD&S Apr 2,2013 - ILYBINILWY Filed 2/12/14 OW 11/13 The Universe always strikes you at your weakest point because that’s what most needs strengthening." – Joseph Campbell
Hello all. Having another weird day in MLC land today. W is all anxious as my parents are coming for D's graduation. She is worried about the state of the house as she stopped caring much about cleaning or housework, especially since she is planning on leaving soon. She has stopped my parents from visiting for the last few years (something I never should have allowed but that's hindsight) and she is aware that they know she wants to go. Since the start of this my parents have said "tell he we love her. This isn't like her, something must be wrong" of course, they also are worried about me and you know how hard it is for LBS's family. They see how you are being treated by WAS and are so worried and angry.
She has been short tempered with me at times and at other times is calling me and asking my opinion or if I want something. While I was outside cleaning the deck, she talked to my FIL. I came in just in time to get he is planning on coming for sure. She knows no one but her wants to see him and his W, but she wants so badly to have him be a part of her life, so badly wants our D's to like him and see him as she now see's him, not the jerk who ruined her life but a victim of some sort and a changed man. Why are the MLCers so selfish? Why do they only care what they want, do what they want.
OMG! I can't believe what just happened while I was writing this! W came in to tell me her mom had hurt her wrist working around her house. Her mom has been having a lot of problems lately, especially since her mother is suffering from Alitzhimers. She has always been a very negative person, always a victim. W tells me that she is so tired of her mom thinking that way. How, whatever a person decides to see, only the bad or only the good is what you will get! This is exactly what I have been trying to tell her about our marriage! She only wants to see the bad, that we had a "bad marriage" while that just isn't true. It's only the fact that she keeps only remembering the bad, discounting the good, that makes her see it that way. Here she is complaining about how someone else is doing EXACTLY what she is with her marriage and can't see that. Than a few min's later told me how ugly she thinks her legs are and believe me people, there is nothing wrong with her legs. She looks at least 10 years younger than her age and has great legs, always has. Gee, maybe it's how she isdeciding to see her legs that's the problem.
Ugh! How can they be so blind to what they do and so fast to see only the bad in the people who love them and have for more than 20 years?! How can they seem to understand that how you see a sitch is how it will be but than make the choice to only see their marriage that way?
