"Man The F*** Up" The Ultimate 180

[figgeroni]

no one is saying it is justified to be lied to

But you seem to have a very smug attitude and you can't imagine why she would prefer someone else over you

maybe he didn't manipulate her...maybe he just validated her concerns....made her feel important....maybe he was not self-serving and smug in his responses to her...

[MrBond]

"So I am lead to believe that because I wasn't able to change my job, pull myself out of the red financially and lose 20lbs inside the month I watched my grandfather slowly die, I deserved to be lied to, lied about to her family and our friends to cover up an affair. "

Being overdramatic much? That's not what I or anyone has said. You don't seem to want to try to understand the point we're getting at. But if that 's how YOU WANT to feel, that's up to you. Don't twist what we are trying to help you to understand.

[theoden]

RedHawk,

I haven't followed your situation as much as these other guys. I'm sure they care for you. However, I think they are being a bit harsh.

I've seen guys on DB do complete 180's. They recovered their confidence, manned-up, became who they were/who they were supposed to be, etc. and win back their wives. Their wives NEVER changed and never really came to terms with the horrific things they did to their husbands. Sure these husbands kept up the changes FOR A WHILE. But in the end, they slipped. And guess what? Their wives cheated on them again. The point is you BOTH need to change. I get the whole "you can only change yourself" mantra people tell you.

Truth is marriage is for better or for worse. Your wife showed that her response to your not "being your best self" is to cheat on you and leave you. If you want to keep listening to people who want to tell you that you DESERVE to have been cheated on, then go ahead.

Sometimes manning up is realizing that you deserve better and that your spouse, is, at best, a flaming turd.

I'm all for manning up, etc. Truth is when your marriage is at stake, your spouse is cheating and you really want them back, your best manning up is partly tainted with desperation and people pleasing. You are doing this to win them back. They can smell it. It oozes out. You (we) are playing a game of "pick me" and our spouse's ego is inflated if they are even noticing us at all.

Affairs are forgive-able. Marriages can be redeemed. But it takes a huge amount of work on BOTH sides. Also, people who linger on these forums get a truncated view of "classic" divorce busting. Michelle Weiner David talks about the Last Resort Technique, After the Last Resort Techniques, No Contact and finally, ultimatums. You seldom hear about that here. People get stuck in telling you to get a life, man-up, etc, but forget that at times, that means showing strong boundaries and, if necessary giving your wife an ultimatum.

Frankly I think a *strong* demonstration of boundaries, and a hard-line are quick and measurable ways of getting a cheater's attention. The long, drawn-out, I'll win them over with my "new and improved" self is often perceived as weakness and actually repels our cheating spouses.

I tried the whole, "I'm going to be a better person and fight hard to save my marriage" thing while my wife was cheating. It didn't work. I barely got out with my sanity and my health. I wasted YEARS of my life.

Again I strongly urge you to go the blog "Chump Lady" for a good laugh and, perhaps a slightly harder line on cheating spouses.

--Theoden

[RedHawk98]

Cheers for the input guys, you're quite right.
Hey its no excuse but I didn't just lose my wife who was my best friend. I discovered how fair weather all my friends were too. That's if they weren't trying to get a piece of her.

The final straw was finding the box of baby clothes that we bought for the future. While packing up and getting rid of most of what I own to move. Far away for a fresh start.

Yeah, I was having a bad day. Sorry guys.

With regards what to do now. I have no idea. I have made genuine changes but I understand that when buttons are pushed, those changes can slip and it doesn't look like it.

My wife is an avoider. Conflict, apologising, anything like that.


Thing is, she just has no respect for me. And to be honest, if she continues to lie to me and refuse to apologise, I'm not sure how much longer my respect will last either.
It really is a hard battle. And I'm tired.

[RedHawk98]

Thank you for the suggestion Theoden. I'll check it out.
If it's anywhere as good as Mid Life Crisis For Dummies, I'll be pleased!

[25yearsmlc]

Just so I know and can try to follow, is THIS your thread?

I've seen another one that is long and it's yours...also?

It's MUCH easier to follow you & your history and give advice, if you only use one thread. Just an FYI.

[RedHawk98]

It was yes.
This was more intended for me to suggest some advice for others that might come in useful.
But it got a little out of hand.

[25yearsmlc]

I read the other thread and saw your apology note, and supported that.

But I'm still not clear on your history b/c I think there are a few diff threads..yes?

I"m not sure of your age, for instance.

But the way you blame her right after admitting that you played a role, shows that your w is not the only confused person here.

If she lost respect for you and You say you understand why, then....that's that.

I mean in terms of an answer, you have it already. In terms of HOW SHE sees things, which is what dictates HER actions,

my guess is that Bond is correct in saying she believes she already tried. You ignored her and went about your life, depressed b/c of financial troubles and b/c a grandparent died.

I get it. My dad died, and it was a HUGE event in my life. Decades later, My mil died and it does affect spouses.

My h was a rock while my dad died but my dad was sick for just 8 weeks and then passed. MIL was sick for 2 years, but I still stepped it up for my h.

But I'm also human. When h snapped at me during his mother's illness, more than once, I noticed... and since we had just begun to piece, I STRONGLY urged "us" to attend Retrovaille. I would no longer be complacent.

As much as it sukks to leave someone while a parent is dying, (& I probably would not have left him regardless of what he did --within reason--but I'd have left him as soon as she passed way, HAD THERE BEEN NO CHANGE IN HIM...

there was very little reserve in me, to deal with any big issue again. Not after all the DBing. For ME, that's a one time deal.

Well, thank God we went. Retrovaille is excellent and it is for marriages in crisis.

Anyhow, I say all this b/c I think a grandparent dying is a typical life stressor. I know that iT's big--I"m not minimizing it, but it's also a "natural" thing to happen in the normal course of a life....Make sense?

I mean, what could she assume about how you'd react, to you two having a sick child, or if SHE became ill what type of partner would you be....if you became so depressed you could not function well, or you became nasty or whatever it was, that SHE saw and got to deal with every day...b/c your grandfather was sick and died?

See, I don't know what your neglect means or what you truly believe you did, so I can only guess. I do know you seem to have grossly underestimated the troubles your m had.

I mean, that's a fair statement, isn't it? Were you too distracted by your problems or did you think she'd wait it out, or were you even aware of how lonely she felt?

As for "all" your friends choosing her, why do you think that is? Surely even if she is bad mouthing you up the wazoo, SOME of them must "know" the real you.
(And geez, you need better friends if they are all hitting on her).

So, is it something in you that you are not seeing, or something they see in you that is not really there?

Your thoughts?

[RedHawk98]

Not at all. Thank you I really do appreciate your angle on this.

I kept a journal to help recently. Cheap therapy you might say.

This is a LONG story. Be prepared. Thank you if you make it to the end.

I am now 37, she is 32. We were married in 2008.
We have had little time purely to ourselves. My family used to be a tight knit one, since all this that has changed drastically.
We were always happy together though. Never fought or argued. Everyone admired us. We were a transatlantic fairytale. No one could believe how fast things changed.

October 2012
9 months after us both buying a large property with my brother and his fiancee as a short two year investment. We were beginning to struggle financially.
The rennovations required and bills were more than we could cope with. We supported each other and commited we would get through with each other.
There wasn't much privacy for us both that year either.
Things got tense between the two couples at times obviously.
However, my wife and I managed to reconcile my brother and his fiancée during a short separation.
My wife using us both as a strong example of a couple as inspiration. "We're soul mates."
Our relationship was still strong and happy, despite financial strains and the lack of privacy.

During this month, her new boss started. He's 2 years older than her with a long term girlfriend. I was just pleased she could be deputy manager to someone who wasn't mean to her like the last one.

My grandfather also fell ill from a stroke. Still a big strong man, he made signs of progress quickly, but he contracted pneumonia within days.

December 2012
Stress began to affect us both by this point. Earlier in the year I had managed to get around a month behind on monthly bills and due to my low paid job, I was struggling to get back to normal. It irritated my wife that I wouldn't ask her for help because as a married couple, we should share finances. Quite right, dumb male pride.
We are both musicians also, and my band's album was taking a ridiculous amount of time to complete. As band boss also, it was up to me to produce the record too. My wife always encouraged me to work on it, and never showed resentment. I wasn't enjoying myself doing it. I would rather have spent the time with my wife in all honesty.

My grandfather's condition was fluctuating badly at this point. Unfortunately, I discovered that my scheming aunt had obtained power of attorney over my grandfather. Not only was she denying him treatment in hospital, but also harassing my family and
arranging legal proceedings to null and void his will and take everything. Violating all his wishes.

Under stress, people make mistakes. Mine was to try and protect my wife from the ugliness that was developing. I honestly thought at the time, that if she knew the full drama of what was going on, that she would run.
Especially with the time that she was spending with this new boss of hers.
When I met him as I picked my wife up from her Xmas drinks, I disliked him quickly. He seemed to refuse to look at me when he spoke. Arrogant. Made fun of us.
He told my wife and the staff the following morning that he was scared of me "because I looked like a Hells Angel" and he thought I was going to beat him up for talking to her.
We are talking your cartoon creepy supermarket boss here. All because my hair was long and I wore a biker jacket.

I had too much on my mind to take him seriously. He was a joke to me. Wouldn't go into his office because of a spider and had his dad drive him everywhere. I didnt get why my wife, a tough country girl, got along so well with him.

On Xmas Eve, my wife arranged a trip to the city. I was near to tears at this point and really didn't want to go. My grandfather was one of my heroes as a kid. I was informed there was nothing I could do in time to over turn the power of attorney.
My wife took my attitude personally. And got very upset with me. I couldn't tell her what was going on.
I apologised and did the best I could to enjoy the day.
Xmas itself was not the usual happy affair with my family that it was obviously, although we tried our best.
My wife was irritated that I wanted us to be with my family at this difficult time, instead of at her friend's house. More on her later.

January 2013
January saw the last two occaisions we were intimate together. The first was great for both of us, as the empty house for once was taken advantage of. The second, pretty awful as we were exhausted and stressed. She got irritated with me and that was it.

In the last days of this month, I visited my grandfather alone. Wife was too tired. I noticed that the fluid IV and his lung drainage had been removed. I spent 3 hours holding his hand as he choked and struggled to breathe. It was extremely traumatic.
I returned home at 11. My wife was irritated and demanded that I "step up".
Changes required were, to change my job so I could contribute more, make an effort in my appearance again and start paying her attention again.
I agreed with her, but her timing was not good.
It wasn't easy to secure another job when my existing job gave no references.
I wasn't a slob, although I admit the baggy jeans and hooded tops I was wearing for work were not my usual style. I was only about 15 lbs over my usual weight but i looked puffy faced and tired. I was losing confidence in myself a lot also.
I admit that I had shut down some too.
All I could do at this point was nod and agree.
Later that evening, I received an email from my father in law in the US. A dream come true to move over there, with a place to stay and a new job.
An amazing offer I just couldn't process that night. My wife completely lost it with me. Furious when I said that I just needed to go to bed and that I would reply in the morning.

The next day, my wife was complaining that her computer was running slow. I went to try and fix it. I saw a messenger window open between her and her boss.
She was irritated and complaining about the previous day. That "Xmas was boring" too. I saw him manipulating the situation. "You deserve better. He's a fool. You're wasting your life" etc
I couldn't believe her selfishness.
I went to challenge her. She was terrified and apologised, saying she was just angry.
The following morning, my grandfather was dead.

February 2013
I had replied to my father in law's message a few days after the funeral. Apologised for the late reply and gave the sad news. He was completely understanding naturally. That I would love to take the offer in the near future once our stake in this property was sold.
The next few weeks I began to pick myself up. Started to make the changes in myself we both wanted.
Communication was difficult though, as she seemed to treat me with contempt no matter what I did.
I asked her twice if there was anything going on between her and the boss. She looked shocked and reassured me that she still loved me. I asked as she spent more time in the computer room and on her phone than talking to me.
I also began to find myself feeling low. Exhausted and feeling very unappreciated.
My wife also seemed to be very late on her monthly cycle. She can't even take birth control pills due to hormone sensitivity, so I was patient and didn't take her shortness with me too personally.

March 2013
I received the "I'm not happy" talk. I apologised for being distant and promised I would see my doctor. I knew something wasnt right with me.
The doctor decided that I was suffering severe depression and put me straight on a high dose of prozac.
My wife was thrilled that I had gotten help and seemed like her old self with me. I was relieved I might start feeling better soon.
The next day, we went for dinner with this friend of ours. We will call her L. As myself and L stood outside for a smoke, L told me that my wife still loved me. But that I wasn't doing things that she wanted sexually. I agreed, as we were certainly lacking privacy. She got a little personal for me and was coming out with things I knew my wife didn't want. She then complained about her boyfriend (as usual), with too much information. Then she asked why she couldn't have someone like me and tried to kiss me.
I refused, and she looked devastated. But she walked back in the restaurant as though she was on top of the world.
L is a classic narcissist. Will suck any joy out of a room. Always complaining. Relies greatly on my wife for reassurance of her attractiveness. Gets upset if she is not the center of attention. My wife is her narcissistic supply.
I had not long done a photoshoot for her where I edited them a little to make her feel more secure. I shaved around 30-40 lbs off and made them look natural. My wife admired me for that.

2 days after, I come home from work. The wife looks panicky. I ask if she is ok as she looks like she needs to run to an exit.
The bomb drops!
"My feelings have changed. I don't love you like I used to. I want my own place on my own"
I am shell shocked.
She's crying. Pulling any possible reason out of the air to justify this. Some genuine misunderstandings, some absolute lies. Major rewriting of history. Our marriage was a mistake. Stopped loving me two years ago. Doesn't remember anything positive about our time together. Doesn't remember her speech to my brother in October obviously.
I told her that it was always my dream to move to the US. "Now you f***ing tell me!" she screams.
The only time she has ever done that.
I text our friend L about this. She replies coldly with "She needs a real man. You're just not compatible and you never were".

I am not allowed on the same floor as the house when she calls her family in the US. In case I hear anything.
I speak with her family later and they assure me that this is just a break and that its not goodbye.
I am kicked out of the bedroom and sleeping on an old matress in the spare room. I had been run into the ground and lay down feeling like I was worthless.
I thought about what L said. I looked on her computer and saw very long conversations between her and the boss. Checked her phone and there were hundreds of texts, all ending in XXX.
I forwarded them all to myself. I don't know why really.

Over the next few days, my heart is banging through my chest fast.
My mood is swinging severely. Somedays we were talking fine as friends. Others I'm crying and begging. Some days I'm furious with rage.
Then one evening as she is over at L's place, I drop to the floor. Mild heart attack. I wake up in hospital with 230bp on oxygen. Turns out prozac doesn't agree with me. And that the doctor should have checked my blood pressure before he gave it to me.
There was also a mysteriously high amount of carbon monoxide in me too. Still no real idea how.
Although rumours in L's area developed that I had attempted suicide. Nice.

My wife visited me in hospital the following day. I was released that afternoon as I was declared safe to. My wife made me a cup of tea, told me to take care of myself, and went back to L's place.
My parents took turns to check up on me, as I was still physically weak.

My wife hid in our bedroom for a whole month after bomb drop. Confused, crying, chain smoking and watching movies. Only leaving to go to work or go to her friend L's place.

Upon being released from hospital, I took a look in the mirror and decided that I needed to make life easier.
I got my long hair chopped short and got dressed up sharp. I surprised my wife with the new look.
She HATED it. The disappointment in her face was a picture.
She would complain about that to our friends later.

My wife decided to move to the same town and area as L. A street away. We lived in a nice town and area, if a little dull. Where L lived was a dive. I know because I lived in that area for a year in my twenties. Drug busts regularly. Migrant crime families. Not nice.
I was denied knowledge of her new address.
None the less, I wrote to L on FB to thank her for taking care of my wife at this difficult time. I was instantly blocked.
Before I was blocked, I noticed she had added my wife's boss as a friend.
With my marriage on the rocks and my wife living round the corner, she had what she wanted.

I told my wife about her actions outside the restaurant. She looked shocked and disappointed. Said that she wasn't sure she trusted her like she did anymore.

While my wife packed, I moved to my folks for a few days to not aggravate the situation further. My wife came to see my family and insisted this was just a break from the tension at home. So that she could "think".

I kept calm and told her that I would use this time to get life back on track and happy again. Change jobs, set up another home and away from the high drama of the last few months.
Make the changes in me that we both wanted. That I hadn't been happy either.
"Lying" from her is my trigger for anger. I've worked on that since, but I sometimes slip up. My parents had an idea of what she was doing. I got very irritated that she lied to my 12 year old sister who looked up to her as her role model. Telling her that she would be back soon.
I snapped. Only to be told that "we were making progress" earlier.

She also had a sudden transfer to a new store. One in the town I still lived in.

May 2013.
I decided to make a clear and easy path back for my wife. I started to placate her a lot. Not a good idea in hindsight as she already was looking down on me.
She called once a week for an hour at a time. She seemed happy and I was doing better too. She showed great interest in what I was doing. I had gotten trials for new jobs and was setting up a new home away from the house that had put so much pressure on us.
Her calling once a week lasted a month. Her attitude towards me changed in seconds when I told her that I believed the carbon monoxide they found when I was in hospital was from a defective heater at work.
She was furious I hadn't told her earlier. I made the mistake of saying that I had set up a new home for us and that I wanted to try and save our marriage.
I was finally told that she was never coming back and that she wanted a divorce. Brutal and final.
I had a feeling she believed L's suggestion of a suicide attempt and that I was no longer being treated with kid gloves.

June 2013
I was always close with my mother in law in the US. She had been making suggestions to help save things. She was thrilled that I was making the changes we needed. Sadly, mid June she said that she was coming over to "support" her daughter and that she wanted to thank me and my family for all they had done when she arrived in person. It all looked very final.
I offered to take my MIL out for dinner for her birthday, as I was embarrassed I couldn't contribute much the last time I was out there.
When my MIL saw me, she looked shocked! I looked smart, lost some weight and certainly not the mess I was described as anymore.
As soon as we sat down she sarcastically said "So, two years huh?". She had a look on her face that showed she wasn't amused at flying over here and that she had heard "that line" before.
She looked at me and listened with complete understanding.
Although she wouldn't tell me out right, heavy hints were dropped. That she left her husband due to a lack of respect, and looked straight in my eyes.
Apparently, she was here to help out a little financially and "buy a fridge".
She was very encouraging of the changes I had made.
At the end of dinner, she said "I don't know when she'll be back. But I am not here to say goodbye to anyone today".
I cracked my tough exterior and tears rolled. She grabbed my hand and smiled.
I was so happy.

July-August 2013
Some friends and family informed me that they had seen my wife working in her store and were concerned at her appearance.
If she wasn't cold to them, she was cheerful but evasive.
I knew she had a massive change in character, but I had seen that before in people that were in affairs.
I was also told that her slightly curvy figure was now rakishly thin and that she looked very unhappy and exhausted.
I was beginning to get worried.
I called to ask if everything was ok. It wasn't. She was heavily in debt. The bank loan she took was punishing and that she was facing court for non payment of bills.
I took the attitude that if she were struggling financially, that her old boss was no longer in the picture.
I had pulled myself out of financial trouble by then, and went down to her store with an envelope. There was enough cash in there (a few hundred) to pay the oustanding bills and put food in the fridge.
Her appearance shocked me. She looked terrible!
I knew her boss's taste in women were the super skinny Diaz and Knightley. This look did not suit her. I could see why people were asking me if she was using drugs.
She told me how much she appreciated it. That she would like to come over to my new home for dinner when I moved in as I had finally learned to cook a little more daringly.

August 2013.
Mid August I moved to a one bedroom apartment. I couldn't stand to live in that house anymore. Too depressing, too many memories. Rent and a mortgage was tough, but I was assured by my mother in law that it would make all the difference. It was worth the exhausting 60-70 hour weeks I was doing for a fresh start.

When I called to invite her over, I was refused. I told her there was a key waiting if she changed her mind and wanted to come home.
Then she turned unpleasant. Told me that she lost respect for me years ago, that she disliked my family because they never let us live (despite previously taking any help they gave us and appreciating it), that marrying me was a mistake.
Her moods were becoming a little Jekkyl And Hyde, but this 180 was insane!

I emailed her sister. Told her that I was worried about her. The weight loss, the character change and money troubles she was in. That I wondered if we could get her a ticket home for a while.
The response I got was pretty ferocious! I was accused of trying to rally her friends and family to my cause, create drama and that I needed to take a long look in the mirror. That I deserved my wife leaving me.

My 12 year old sister looked upset one day. "What did I do wrong?" she asked. My wife had wiped all of my family from her FB and blocked me. Ignored my young sister's messages.

I went to see a friend that night. Told him what was going on. His face dropped and he showed me FB on his laptop.
My wife was having a far better life than I was. Pictures of expensive days out and those inspirational postcards of "Not feeling guilty for wanting a better life" and "It's not selfish to put yourself first" etc. Her old boss's profile had the same pics of those days out. But no sign of them together.
In front of an old friend I cracked and howled my eyes out.

September-October 2013
My wife always maintained she didn't know how or have the time to get the divorce papers. I left the blank papers and instructions for her to pick up at the old house.
She did.
I spent the next few months coming home from work and taking a deep breath before I opened the door. Waiting for the letter from the court.
It never seemed to come.

During that time, a mutual friend of ours in the US, began to message me. A trustworthy woman with a wonderful family of her own who believed in marriage.
She was of much needed support as many of my friends had shown themselves to be very fair weather. Which I admit hurt after many years of putting other people first.

She asked many questions. She was genuinely concerned. I didn't tell her or anyone that I had evidence of the messages between them.
She told me that after presenting her with the facts and what she had heard and seen, that I needed to prepare myself.
She informed me that she believed my wife was having an affair (which I very much suspected). That she was disgusted with my wife but still her friend. She also asked me gently if I could forgive her if she had aborted a child that might have been mine.
"Someone doesn't fly 5000 miles to pay some bills and buy a fridge sweetheart" she said.
She would never tell me how she came by that idea. I didn't want to know anyway.

I promised my wife that I would love her through thick and thin. No matter what.

Our friend praised me that night but advised me to take a hard line, as I had given her far too much power already.
To this day I still wonder how much she is in contact with my wife.

I left my wife a wedding anniversary gift at the old house. A bracelet she had always admired and wanted. She thanked me by text. I heard nothing more.

November 2013
I decided that after 6 months I could no longer wait for her to file. I went to seek legal advice.
My wife contacted me later that day saying that our life insurance for the house had come out of her account early. That she needed the small amount (£20) today.
I lost my temper with her. Reminded her that she was happy to take money from someone she didn't respect. That I should have let her lie in the bed she made.
She replied that she was very unhappy and lonely and attacked me for having no sensitivity to her situation.
I calmed down and explained that I had just sought legal advice and was upset. That we needed to het together for a drink and discuss it.
She agreed immediately and became friendly.
I remembered that our mutual friend in the US had suggested she would respond better to me no longer being a doormat.

The meeting went well. Initially she was cold and hostile, but the tears came from her as she told me how she was struggling paying mortgage and rent. I comforted her.
She brightened up and we talked about the things we had done.
Then came the tearful questions from her. Why did we take on that shared house? Why didn't I tell her my grandfather was dying? (Although it was fairly obvious he wasn't going to pull through) Throwing a lot of blame at me.
She looked worried and said "I never asked you to file for divorce".
I apologised in a more masculine manner than i had been and showed that the future was different from what we had known now.
As I saw her to the train station, she seemed to talk herself out of any progress we had made. Couldn't look at me or touch me.

December 2013
Xmas was hard. I could not get involved in the spirit of it.
I ended up having a drink in the town my wife had moved to. For the first time in months, I was laughing with an old friend.
Some person came up to me, didn't know who they were. "You're *****'s husband. Must suck to hear you're a mistake" and laughed.
He wasn't laughing long. I don't think I've ever thrown a punch as good as that.
My friend dragged me out before security got near me.

I called my wife after Xmas to see if we could try and resolve our differences. Initially it went well, until the lies started again. That she has never reffered to our marriage as a mistake. She did eventually confess to "a crush" on the old boss. But that it was ok as her feelings for me were long gone by then. The offer from her father for us both to live out there was just for me and she was only irritated that I didn't take it for myself.
The history revisions were turning nasty from her. I then calmly said that I knew about her affair from the start and that there was no need to hide it anymore.
I can only describe her nastiness on the phone as "cornered rat".
I was once again "a mistake".

January 2014
I messaged my wife to say that I was helping clear the old house for more rennovations. That I was prepared to dispose of the wedding dress she had left and all of our souveniers. I drove and she didn't.
Instantly she replied that it was unfair to expect me to do that and thst she would collect it.
I maintained I had no problem doing that as I had other things to clear.
She was insistent that she collected it. And arranged to the following day.
Which puzzled me considering she believed it to be a mistake.

February-April 2014
Things became more pleasant between us. A text every few weeks. She was pleased to here that I had returned to the career I once had many years ago in psychiatric nursing. It felt good to be on a professional path again.

A chance meeting at the old house occured. To sign papers of ownership over to my brother. I think my brother might have arranged that.
Alone, we spent a wonderful two hours together talking about our better lives today.
I took the opportunity to tell her why I was so stressed a year ago. She had a right to know. While she was horrified to hear the full story, she maintained that I was at fault for not telling her. That my poor communication (for a few weeks) was the reason we were facing divorce (again).
We signed our papers and felt better that we would be free of that massive mistake of buying into that house.
I casually stood outside and wished her well. As I was ready to walk away she stretched her arms out for a long hug. That hadn't happened in a long time.
"For what it's worth, I miss you" I said.
"I miss you too" she said, her eyes watering up.
I smiled and gave her another hug. "I'll call you" she says at the end of every meeting as usual.
The following week I call to tell her that the house is finalising. Said that I would call later that evening for a catch up.
"What for?" "If I have time" and "I didnt say I missed you" were the responses from her.
I kept calm and remained strong.

Later that evening, I received an email with many attachments. Didn't recognise the address.
In it were many screenshots of my wife's emails. Messages dated days after she left me between her and the old boss's parents and friends. Complaining how badly her previous "relationship" ended and how it hasn't left much time for them both. Messages from her band that I always helped out with, the members showing that they knew all along what was going on. Seeming happy for them both.
They had mocked the photography that I did for them a 18 months ago, but are still using today for gig posters and cd's with my signature removed.
I felt physically sick.
I called my wife and lashed out at her. Apparently what she had done is none of my business as she stopped loving me years ago and had left by then. That she was going to call the police and report me. For hacking.

As I had a relapse and lit a cigarette I wondered who else had known about our marriage and her old boss. Me, her, her old boss and L were the only people that knew. I asked a friend in IT where the IP address was that they were sent from.
Sure enough, a collection of rat hole streets that were home for my wife and our previous friend L.
Someone wanted to hurt me obviously.

May 2014
By now, the house transfer had processed and my grandfather's estate complications were completed. Life was good again. Not only was my new job rewarding but my photography business was doing well also. I had returned from securing a contract with a club that I had approached on a chance. I caught myself in the mirror and realised I was nothing like the puffy faced stressed out mess I was a year ago. I was proud of myself!
I thought how I had been an absolute doormat to my wayward wife. Then how I didn't blame her for leaving me. That I couldn't resent her completely as she didn't know all my troubles.

The cheques for the house arrived to me. She initially refused to meet for a drink. I insisted. As my family had given up early retirement so that they could sell their house to their two sons at a discounted rate to renovate and make a profit to buy homes of our own. I was not going to give her her quarter of that in an envelope to an employee.
It was disrespectful. I wanted a dignified end to it.
She refused the offer to come to my home. "I don't need to go there" was the response.
We met later that day over a drink. Initially prickly with me she melted slowly. By her second glass of wine, it seemed like 10 years had dropped off her face as she laughed and talked like she never had anyone to talk to. I told her that too.
For someone that didnt want to meet, she seemed to enjoy those three hours.
I then told her that this would be our last meeting. She looked shocked. I told her that I would be moving over to Ireland soon and that the divorce was going through.
She seemed resigned and sad.

As I walked her to the station I told her gently that there was room in the removal van if she wanted to come with me.
"I know you think it's easy to come back from all this. But it's not" she said. Staring into space.
She started repeating "I've not changed" three times over to herself. A little disturbing.
She looked blank as she told me I would be happier out there. That there was nothing I could have done to save things.
As cryptic as ever.

I snarled "I am tired of your lies. You ran me into the ground before you left to justify you running off with someone else to yourself. Humiliated me. Thought only of yourself."
"I never lied" she said shaking
"If you care about your reputation so much why not do the decent thing? This IS easy! You kick the third party to the curb, we forgive each other and spend some time having fun again. Hello! We save our marriage. It worked for everyone else we know!....
F*** this I deserve better!" And I walked away.
I stopped and turned around to see her drop her head and walk to the train.

As I filed for divorce, with grounds on leaving me for someone else, selfishness and refusal to save the marriage, I added a defence to it at the end. To show that affairs can be corruptive and that she is not as selfish and twisted as the grounds showed.

She text to say that she had signed and returned them. That she wanted to pay half of the costs as it's her responsibility too.
I was slightly annoyed by this, as none of this was her responsibility before.
I calmly refused saying that it wasn't necessary.
I got a volley of abuse claiming that everything I did was to get a rise from her.
I calmly stated her insistence on texting has made this whole situation so toxic it was no wonder we were in such a mess.
I suggested we sit down and make peace.
That was ignored and I was told that I never thought how she felt and why I made her feel that way.

I had tried to many times. She was too hostile to listen at the time.
I sat down with a blank birthday card and wrote her a message.
Saying that I was sorry that I made her feel so lonely, angry and bored to make the choices she had made. That I was embarrassed at how I had let things in the past get me down so much. Stating that the reasons were no excuse.
I wished her well and praised her for the person she is that I remembered. (Ignoring the affair fog nastiness)

I delivered the card personally to her work. My appearance had changed a lot. I looked sharp, but still like the rock band frontman she married.
I gave her the card and told her I was moving in a few weeks. She could barely speak for 10 uncomfortable seconds. Just looking wide eyed at me.
We made small talk and I left.

I have no idea if the third party is still with her. I'm told only one family member of hers has him on his FB friends list. It is my mother in law's new husband. Certainly not on my mother in law's list. Who still has a folder of photos of me displayed entitled "My adorable son in law".

I still love my wife. I would dearly love to reconcile and move forward to the life we always promised ourselves.
I am moving country because I have trust issues now with the people I have grown up with. I can count those I trust on one hand now.

A fresh start. I am about to mail the middle stage of divorce off.
I have attracted the attention of somebody new. She's a wonderful girl. I know I deserve to be happy after all this. But I'm undecided. All through separation, my wife has enquired as to who certain women are that I've worked or had contact with. Why care?!

I never believed in horoscopes thay much. Until I read Aries (hers) and Aquarius (mine).
An Aries will rarely apologise for anything, it's a weakness to them. They'll swear the grass is purple to prove a point and hold grudges for life.
This is such a tragedy for a couple who have learned hard lessons to never repeat, and are still perfect for each other if they could get past this issue.

I don't want to sound smug at all. But if my wife prefers to stay with a man she doesn't have that much in common with. That doesn't support her music as I did, and mocks her for it. That keeps a friend close that only uses her and she can't really trust. In an area where the pit bulls walk in pairs for safety.
And still tell me she shouldn't feel guilty for wanting a better life?!
What can I do?

[25yearsmlc]

well,

I read the whole thing twice. I can't address it line by line for several reasons.

For one thing, your spin on things is all over the place. You'll say she's "acting happy or friendly" and then "only to turn cold the next week/day"...but I cannot address your interpretations. Some of what you say is confusing as heck to ME and a lot of it is trivial stuff you seem to read into quite a bit and then there are things you are saying about what your wife "Seemed like" or "looked in the distance" and I cannot make heads or tails of your interpretation of where she was gazing or what she was thinking NOR do I believe it matters, at this moment in time...

Let go of the past.

Also, there is a major pattern of you pursuing her in the face of obvious DISINTEREST On her end. Stop trying to say something to her, "just in case" she does not know you want a reconciliation. She and the whole world knows that is what you want.

The few times she shows interest in you for whatever reason, (maybe she is intrigued by the new you??), then you must STFU and NOT talk about it and not immediately expecting a change in her choices or place an expectation on her...just let something new from you, sink in. That means

consistent change + sufficient time = change she can believe in.

OR maybe she is hoping you are alright, not suicidal, b/c after all, you were married. One way of showing her that you are better is NOT caring what she or her friends think or say about you. Get off of Facebook if it means stalking her or checking up on her.

You could have simply posted a few pictures of YOUR NEW GAL and never say a word about it and she'd have heard of it...but I suspect your urge to "tell her" or "show her" by going thru a 3rd party is too obviously manipulative on your end, to work. That's because if you were truly GAL, you would not need to "show" her anything...

The involvement of so many others in your m, is clearly detrimental to the m. Yet you DO still enlist the support of others. I don't think even you believe you reached out to her sister on FB b/c you were "concerned"...i mean, don't you see how controlling that must look to them? It really reeks man.

As for the "friends" who all turned on you, either you need better friends or you need to be a better friend. I can't say which but something is off in those scenarios.

I asked you if they saw something in you that you didn't see, and or, if they did not see the good in you and if so, why that would be.

In response, I got the LONG calendar of events from you without any insights from you or any overall perspective on it. I mean it's like you showed me your diary but that is not what I was seeking

(SIDENOTE: incidentally your post kind of reads like a grievance list, which you must toss out. The way you recall events is not actually that important, unless you are a witness for a case in court, okay?)

Besides, and NOTE THIS, I doubt your wife' Calendar is the same as yours. But again, what matters is NOT the sequence of events. We do not have to agree on marital history. All we must agree on is how to go "From this day forward".

(Please do not write that^^ or anything else to her, at this time).

I think you need to Stop all the pursuing. It's a clear pattern of yours. Back way way off and don't contact any of her people.

Let her come to you, but know that it may well take years. You may be emotionally unavailable to her then. Take it a day at a time.

Besides, you can work on YOU in the meantime. Since you are all you control, at least you KNOW this is something you can do.

I've had 2 family members divorce and later remarry their former spouses. It happens and I read somewhere that it happens 15% of the time.

In my family member's case, none of them expected to reconcile, and each one went to IC and they all changed and improved.

They worked on themselves on their own, and The 2nd time around really was better

but it was YEARS (4-5) before a reconciliation was possible. And yes, there were children involved.

All I can say from your posts here, is that I do hope you'll keep getting IC and work on the cyclical depressions and obsessive thought patterns. They are not serving you well at all.

Make sense?