I guess I was thinking that if I pulled back, H would start to "pursue", rather than act petulant and put-out. I didn't see that as "pursuit", therefore, I didn't recognize the response, as you both did when I described his reaction.
(I tend to miss the obvious, have you noticed? )
Every time I distance myself, this is how he acts; sulky, passive-aggressive, unhelpful... I don't even have a problem with that, except that it appears to push the goal of getting closer/future R further off.
I don't WANT to pursue!
I want him to pursue ME if and when he ever wants me. I think I'm worth the effort.
So I'm fine with no pursuit.
I will take what you said and put it into practice. I'll try withdrawing more and remaining consistent even when he gets snippy and pushes my buttons.
I'll try that consistently and report back. The only other thing left to try is to give him more openings and see if he takes them. (My "openings" have been very open-ended with no pressure at all, leaving a very easy out for him.)
For the record, I've tried inviting him/getting a little closer. The result has been that he: 1. Declined and seemed to feel pressured. (No pressure from me.) Stated he was sad and he was a victim of "circumstance". 2. Declined saying he preferred to do such-and-such alone. 3. Declined, saying he "was in a weird place" and he was "not trying to be a jerk". This last one, most recently.
He has allowed small touches without flinching (Wow! Imagine that. My husband of 23 years didn't flinch when I touched his shoulder. Woo-hoo!!!) Yet the other night he almost fell over himself backing up to "let me pass" when I was on my way out for the night and he was "pet-sitting". I couldn't help myself.
I said: "Geez, it's not like I have cooties or something..." To which he answered, "I was just...just... giving you space to get by."
Yeah. OK. Like he has the last five years. Backing up when passing me in a hallway or doorway so he wouldn't have to touch me. Like I'm so disgusting...
Sorry---I digress.
I will take your advice and get to it. I only have 12 months or so left, (fortunate, I know, compared to some), so I'd better try everything in my arsenal.
I think where I get stuck is him getting so negative with me, going MIA, being snippy, trying to undermine my PMA...
I think if I can get past that, I'd be OK. After all, what is he going to do? Cheat on me and lie to me?
Been there, done that.
If that didn't destroy my PMA, nothing he can do now will, either.
Thanks for responding. (I'm on a strange computer in another state, so this is a bit disjointed.)
--(G)GGG
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
It has been many years since I have posted and thought I had a good relationship with my H. Until yesterday when he told me he never wanted to be married (which he has said before) that he did not want children and he has wasted his life. Then he left for the night and must have come back very late to grab some of his things for work.
I would like to break the cycle as it seems H = D & Me = P. It has been years since I have had to P to save him from walking but I do not want to have to go thru this again. Right now: I am looking for a new job/out of work, have a 1 year old that rises at 4:30-5:00am, a house under construction, and had a terrible 2 years of miscarriages, family illness and lost a baby.
I might be too tired to P someone who: -says he should have never married (to me) -says he should have never had children (with me) -does not want to have more children -thinks I am not naturally nice to him -says I talk meanly to him -has depressions -is overly sensitive and is described by others as a difficult person -b/c I am not nice, and does not want me to get pregnant, and is worried about his performance has withheld sex from me...we have had sex 3 times since August. I have had to beg for it.
But if I do not P, will the relationship fall apart?
I am conflicted as I feel like I should save this and in the past have had to P my butt off to get him to stay.
Generally: I feel confused. But we are so lucky to have our DD after years of loss and her premature birth that I am over the moon with her and am focusing on being happy with her.
Please: I need some help here on how to proceed.
Details:
I call my H a runner...but I think he is a distancer and I know I am the pursuer. Here is my recollection: 1) H distanced in 2003 when we were dating and we did not see each other for a year, got back together in 2005 after a very long pause of contact and then a major pursuit by me 2) H distanced in 2005 when were were engaged. Wanted to stop the wedding. I pursued, not hard, but enough and we married. The day of the wedding I was running a tiny bit late to the church and he thought I was not going to show and was very worried I was not going to show. 3) H distanced in 2006 and 2008 (isn) and we saw a DB coach many times and it got back on track: we then had 6 years of pregnancy ups-downs which actually brought us closer than ever 4) H distanced 2014, Dec 30: He is not happy, never wanted to be married or have children and then left our home.
Hello happy1! So, you are aware that you are a pursuer? If you've been doing the pursuing, then stop right now, drop the rope and have faith in yourself and in the process. Sometimes, you have to drop the rope and allow the other person, your h, to realize that you are not going to run after him any longer. In order to break this cycle of the "dance" of pursuit and distance, you will need to be the one to do so. If he goes off to sulk, let him, because like a child, he'll get over it. If he leaves the house for a while after an argument, let him. He'll either come home or not, but that will be his choice to make.
Will the relationship survive if you stop pursuing and doing the things that you've been doing? You have a far better chance of turning things around if you stop what is not working. The more your pursue, plead beg, etc., the more determine he will be to run and make your life miserable because he doesn't want to be pulled back into a relationship that he sees as not what he wants right now. There are no guarantees that he will want to return even if life is better between the two of you. It's too soon to tell what he may or may not do.
From your list, I would suggest that you get back into the saddle and start dbing once again. Of course, you know that dbing is not about saving your marriage, but about saving you, teaching you how to react to things, as well as how to communicate better not only w/your h, but w/everyone. I would also suggest that you get the DR book that is out as well.
You do realize that he's going to point the finger at you for everything? Notice he's certainly not pointing it at himself. Work on the things that he's pointed out, if they are true. If they aren't, pitch them out the window. Sounds like he's a master at manipulation and/or he's passive-aggressive. Please stop begging for sex. I know you want that closeness, but it puts you in a "needy" position. Go out and purchase some toys to help you when he's in that mood of not wanting any.
Please understand that you can't fix him. He has to do that all by himself. You can only work on yourself and take care of your child. The time has come for me to say "focus on you and allow your h to swing in the wind." You didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him. When he starts to realize that you aren't begging, pleading and pursuing, he'll begin to wonder what's going on and will become curious. If he does, stay the course and do not take up the "hunt" again.
Drop the rope, have faith in the process. It does work.
And, Happy1? A VERY important question to ask your self is this:
Why did YOU choose someone that was so ambivalent about the relationship? What part of YOU thinks you don't deserve someone who worships you and wants to be with you?
I ask this question because it's one I had to answer myself. My ex was ambivalent before the wedding; cheated on me the night before our wedding; I thought we worked it all out a year into the marriage, but periodically throughout our 24 years marriage issues would come up. He cheated again about 17 years into the marriage. We reconciled (thanks DB!) and had several of the best years of our marriage - but as he approached 50 he went down the rabbit hole for good.
I would have said that overall our marriage was quite good; I know that friends saw us as a great couple. But the truth is, I was stuck ALWAYS trying to keep an unhappy man happy. He saw my flaws through a distorted funhouse mirror, and nothing I did was ever quite enough for him.
After my divorce, I had to figure out why I was attracted to emotionally unavailable men. I also found out that I'm quite a catch, and every single one of the men I dated after my divorce thought my ex was a fool for leaving me.
Now I have a man in my life who adores me, goes out of his way to care for me, and thinks I'm perfect just the way I am. It is so refreshing, to be with someone who treats me with the same care that I always put into my relationships.
I'm not saying you should give up on your man. But if it is ever going to work, you need to stop the dynamic; you need to trust that YOU are worth it, that HE is losing out if he walks. You need to be of the mindset that you don't WANT a man that isn't totally into you.
Act as if YOU are the prize and he is making the biggest mistake ever. Take whatever steps necessary to move forward with a successful independent life for you and your child. Let go of the rope with H and just trust that if he is MEANT to come back into your life, if he is WORTHY, he will eventually start to pursue you.
Thank you job and kml for the swift and honest responses. You both have great points and both were thought provoking. It feels good to have people that can give support.
So I do not hi-jack this thread, I am going to respond on my new thread in newcomers H is Running Again
glad this morning i bumbled into this bunch of posts. i'll look for the books mentioned. life seems to be at it's usual "peaceful but (for me ) unresolved and not so "happy" place. Not sufferin all that much - not the abject misery of a few years ago - so yay for that.
in reading cadet's descriptions of pursuer and distancer- so many of the qualities fit both of us. me as pursuer since i always did (note- "did") honestly believe somehow that love would conquer all. (I definitely cared more about our r than he ever did - i see that - tho i'm a rather "coolish" pursuer. i am not clingy or emotionally needy - something he always said he loved about me. (ha!) just a fool mam - nothin more.
i can look back and see where i've been incredibly "polly-anna-ish" in general in life. He was always a very quirky and self-contained guy, but yes, the "baby" as well as the "alpha male". i always bought his 'story" about why he was and who he was - i just trusted without restraint. (alot of my unreal expectations were engendered by his unreal & glowing disclosures about "who he was inside". sheesh ! what a pair... perfect - a liar and a gullible doofis.
some one above said that they now have someone wonderful in their lives that cherishes them and tries hard to show them how special they are, etc. (i lost the quotation so i'm paraphrasing) That is exactly what i felt when i met H 40 years ago - while married to ex-H of a year or two and had newly realized this guy got drunk & violent occasionally.
holy cow-
it would be a more comfortable thing for me to buy into it "all being my fault" I'm scrappy but waaay too accepting in life (across the board) of blame and responsibility. but ya know, i just don't. it's embarassing how much some of the pursuer (needy jackass) traits fit me and my r's in life (family as well as him). I always thought it was a good thing to be a kind of person that "got along" and smoothed things over, nurtured, etc. i haven't gotten to that place yet- wiping all that out of my personality. it maybe who i am - tho needing moderation.
It seems now to me , that he always had a liar and cheater side (most probably) and i didn't even suspect or see it. i'd say this business of having an optimistic outlook and seeing the good rather than the bad - can backfire a bit with regard to putting good spin on bad behavior - etc. for everyone i've ever known. what the heck is that anyway? i am not sure i want to be a suspicious and negative (and realistic) person - - on the other hand- what i've been is not very appetizing to think of one's self. (giant well-meaning sucker???)
so, what do we do with this information? I don't hate myself about who i was - I do feel "different" but am not sure where to go with it. I've 180'd a bit (if not alot)
1) I do not honestly care if he gets mad. i would have said in past 38 yrs i always "feared" his anger. for no concrete reason other than that's who i am- hate confrontation & giant emotion & conflict. (he did not get mad as continually tho, until last ten or so years) Now, i do not get mad and i do not get scared or scurry to make it better. i stay calm - my innerds are calm anyway- it bores the life out of me - his bs and anger. (total perspective 180 change for me)I do not take him as deadly serioyusly any more. he's "just another person" - I and just say you're angry, not me. if we can't talk without yelling- lets just forget it now. and walk away- yes, turn my back. sounds small- but huge for me.
2) i am less insecure than ever about him walking. - i've been sitting here "facing down" my fear and insecurity of being alone, being poor, having no one - etc - but you know - i kind of see it as inevidible now and am savoring the last days (years? months?) of having someone in my life. *(unless a miracle happens and i don't think one will). i'm getting adjusted to no mother, no sister, no him, no body. i don't particularly like it- but it's clearer and clearer that it's the life i've constructed and for the moment I'm not rushing to embrace it- but i'm not feeling sick with dread over it either. that sounds pretty lame - but it's progress for me. it couldn't intellectually be worse - so like, nothing left to fear much. merely awaiting the worst - it's kind of freeing to not have any hope about it anymore.
i'm sorry to think he can 'do this" forever and not care about what i think. I feel badly to be of so little value to him - it would appear so tho. he's got ow for sex - he's got me for whatevertheheck he thinks i provide (???) - he knows we're bound together with ownership of this nj house (50-50) maybe that makes him think he's 'safe". he supports me and i let him- *(yeah- laziness & the lack of desire to embrace my alone-ness and poverty) and make no mistake- that's big. this house is my place to be. he cannot 'share" properly in life. (anything or everything.) he's generous- but he is all about him. somehow conflicting traits - but both. i can see how i got tricked - knowing he was inarticulate about feelings & resented having them too (just like my mother) but showed caring in acts (or so i thought).
i still don't know about all that- what's shown by good or caring acts. possibly nothing - someday i'll know.
it's probably like db book says - he thinks because i don't talk about it and i don't yell or figtht about it- it's all OKAY WITH ME. NOT..... i'm just figuring out what the heck i'm doing or going to do and be, etc -
hey - another 180 - i just took him to airport- on the way i wondered if loverwoman was picking him up at airport - i thought of asking for one second because i used to be that kind of a guy - up front- honest - curious - but DIDN'T because it was just more bs - nothing to talk about any more. nothing to be gained. recognition that not one single constructive think in universe would be gained - i didn't say a darn thing or act "nicey-pooh" or anything. i just was pleasant and not-involved. any other day in my life i'd have just asked and out with it- today i figured "why bother" ?
i'm not sure what that is- but it's waaay better than emotional involvement and the bad old days of "how could you" and "why"....
i feel detached in a liberated yet cr@ppy way. oh well- i guess progress isn't always necessarily a good feeling.
nice to be alive and healthy and my life still is (at the moment) better than most. i do appreciate that. i do swallow my pride and accept his support- gift of time to organize myself so that when i walk - it's my decision?? idk
what the heck good is "pride" anyway. i know who and what i am- no one to impress or get permission from.
. I can see a million mistakes in my values in life (and yes, maybe expectations from others that were nutty) - but idk, so i guess i'm watching myself morph as well as him. i do not know this new guy- i am not sure what i will do with him and any r with him. i don't feel overwhelming love i always did- it's bashed into the turf at the moment. i just feel like i'm learning to walk allover again- th ere's soooo much "junk" - i do not feel desire for him or anyone- tho i loosely would like to feel loved in life- i sure do not feel "up to" looking for it. still tired - more content than last bunch of rotten years - expectations about people and life lower than ever - but curiously optimistic still aboutfuture.
don't know where that co mes from- faith(I wonder) - idk- i just don't know much any more. great at stayin in the day tho- in the moment- maybe that makes one feel okay and content or "happy-ish".
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL- sorry to be ramblie - thanks for all your hel[ps and input & patience over years- it's changed soo many lives mine (and still is/does) ...
I'm reading these posts at a good time. I am not a needy clingy purser but can see where this dance has played a role in my life with Hubby. I have also read books that talk about this as a fear of commitment. Passive committment phobics and aggressive committment phobics. The purser is often passively committment phobic attracting emotionally unavailable partners. The aggressive committment phobic usually jumps in with both feet at the beginning and then starts to distance once they know their partner is hooked. They can't committ to yes and they can't committ to know so if the purser gets fed up enough to drop the rope the distancer will try pursing only to distance again if the bait is bit. I think it's also known to be the dance of intimacy. I believe it's normal for there to be smal steps forward in back in relationships it's when its a constant cycle it becomes an issue.
Me 52 H 44 T9 M 5 BD 12/11 H split 8/12 OW moved in 12/12 OW gone for good 6/14 We get closer again 9/14 SD 13 Me 4 Grown
Accept what is...let go of what was and have faith in what will be.
your insights are true - at least of us. I am definitely commitment phobic (passive) - i do get panickie when i'm "too committed" and can remembeer really neeeeding to get some "space" when i began coming to nj house by self. I'm a nurturer who gets really unhappy when somenoe NEEEEEDS ME too much- i don't even really want responsibility for me , much less someone else!! he is militently commitment phobic- yet pursued like a banshee in beginning???
i do not know now why he is planning little trips (i love trips) and doing nice things, buying me things - yet has lovelife with ow? insanity - he's both "pursuing & buyuing me" and distancing and makin me feel like nothing. i am off balance all the time.
In beginning (38 yrs ago or so) he was soooo ardent a ursuer - desirous of my companionship every minute of every day- fun & nice - but at some point tiring. i always bought his "marriage is no guarantee" spiel because i was newly divorced from a guy rabid to marry me and always verbally reassuring (but - actions crappola) - i was less keen - so, it blew up anyway (his booze - violence) . it surely is no guarantee.
now- i see it's a "protection" of sorts with legal rights - and it's also a "commitment" to hang in there and be there and so on- i do think mentally it's a big step- writing your name and making the commitment. maybe just the legal entanglement and problems to get out of - encourage loyalty?
i both would like it- and squirm and thinK "oh God, then i'd be shackled to this guy forever til i die" and a bit panickie.
oh well- never said i was not neurotic0-
human beings are too weird. maybe our brains have out-evolved our instincts. & we're all off balance all the time. i think our instinct is to find a mate to protect us (as woman) - part of me wants to sign up. However, my brain says , what if it goes bad, he turns weird, just needs someone with some $$ to save him at moment, has anger issues - hidden mine field - that's from life's little bad discoveries over years. with tv and acess to the experiences and thoughts of every other person alive - every day- we've become "scared" of things we shouldn't know- ignorance is bliss. i think i'll be a dog next life... keep it simple.
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