Need Help before I blow a fuse.

[20&lost]

Yes. For the last 8 years I was having panic attacks and withdrew from the family. My W didn't understand them and started to create a life with the kids without me. I went to many councilors before finally last year finding one that found my root cause and I haven't experienced one since.

Sounds great. Can you talk to that counselor about some of your other issues? Jealousy is a form of insecurity and CAN be a means of control. What's that all about? Have you explored it?


During that time during panic attacks as she was growing more independent I became very controlling and jealous. She also couldn't understand panic attacks because I am so strong minded.

What does this^^^ Mean?

It means that she has always seen me mentally get over many obstacles over the years and she couldn't understand why I mentally couldn't solve my panic attacks.


She also appears to be going thru Mid-Life crisis. We went through 8-10 years of growing apart.

Maybe you are leaving out parts of the story, but to me it just Sounds more like a natural byproduct of her needs being unmet for so long.

But it doesn't matter much - b/c YOUR course of action remains the same. Work on you.


When had the meltdown at the beginning of last November, she said that if I had been doing the things I was doing now she would have loved it but that because I had been so distant the last 8-9 years she had started a life outside of me. This caused a great deal of jealousy in me as she branched out.



Now I am trying to find out who I am and to be happy in my own skin.


I don't mean to minimize this^^, but frankly, it sounds a lot more like a MLC....what are you talking about?


Over the last 9 years I have forgotten who I am and have totally changed. She has even told me that she doesn't recognize who I am anymore. She said I use to be so independent and sure of myself and that person has just disappeared.

I have 2 wonderful kids who are beginning to pick up that my wife and I are having issues. My wife will disappear for hours, will not take there phone calls a great number of times. My D, age 17 has asked my W on many occasions where she has been and why won't she take her calls, etc....

M-57 W-44
D-17
S-13

[25yearsmlc]

When starting to do a 180, do you also start to set loose boundaries?

The two^^^ are NOT directly connected. Plus, I'm not sure you are in any position to be setting boundaries, especially if they come off as directives to her.

You do Not control her, and don't forget, You checked out of the marriage many years ago, remember? You went "AWOL"....

so you cannot pretend this is some sort of "Selfish MLC" on her part, without any explanation or theory behind it. Her actions have NOT been performed in a vacuum.

Do you see that? I mean, really, do you really GET that?

And truly, I don't mean to sound harsh or as if I'm bashing you with a "2 x 4", but did you really read the DB/ DR books, either of them, and or get a DB coach? What is he/she advising? Do they have the same information we have?


What I would like to say to her is the next time she tells me she is meeting the OM for lunch say "Thank you for telling me. If you think this is proper thing to do and is going to help our marriage, then it is your choice, however, I am uncomfortable with it."

Come on, this^^ is just Nonsense! No one is fooled by it. It's obvious you are attaching judgment to her choice, so why the facade of her deciding "if she thinks it's a proper thing to do"? What's with the pretense? Clearly YOU do NOT think its proper...(never mind how you treated her for all those years....OMG what did you do about all that? I must have missed it but did you seriously own it? Did you SAY so? I"m a little baffled by your indignation, given the past and backstory.

But again, I may have missed the grand apology. Can someone give me details or dates, I realize Caeman is a tad busy...BUT I think you ought to

Either say how you feel or say nothing. NO games. But don't you think she knows how you feel? IF SHE KNOWS, and if you know that she knows,

what is your goal in telling her, again? To win her back or TO shame her? The shaming thing will backfire, and it's not coming from a place of love in your heart, anyway.

To pressure her with some sort of indirect social pressure? Same thing as trying to shame her. ALSO NOTE that when you try to shame a spouse into coming home and staying home (btw, I've never seen a spouse come home in shame, and stay for long....ever...)

but when you try to shame them, IF they "take it", then they'll seethe with resentment (until they erupt and take you by surprise) b/c they will store up their "grievances" and THEN leave, but they'll probably be better armed legally/financially)

AND OR they'll make sure everyone in your life knows what a horrible spouse/parent you were - to MAKE them leave you.

No spouse can handle shaming and infamy, indefinitely. Who would really want that for them anyhow?

Surely it's no way to have a happy, contented and loving spouse...And that's really what we'd like, isn't it?

But by shaming, guilting and judging them, They will fight back, either openly (which is sort of preferable) or behind your back... which really does some damage to your kids. Beware the passive aggressive behavior that teaches our kids so many lessons about what NOT to do inside a r/marriage.

BE mindful of your true motives in all you do. I found that often times my pride and ego (and what i called my "sense of justice", allowed me to justify a punitive vindictive course of action, ALL under the guise of "justice/fairness", which of course - I got to determine...)

If your motives come from a place of light and love, or at worst, you just let the cards fall where they fall, WITHOUT you having a hand in which direction those cards fall....then you know you can hold you head up and Go in peace.

But if your motives were a bit "tainted", or you let a rumor/nasty comment get passed about your former spouse, OR if you did worse (like start the rumor, or omitting the truth when it helps them, or just out & out lyng about our ex)

OR if you helped to poison any relationships she/he may have had with anyone - but especially their children, then You must OWN THAT ACT, & REVERSE it ASAP, or irreparable damage will be done to that child, AND that parent...(and who knows who else?)

You CAN undo that.

Hang in there! Keep posting.

[20&lost]

I am meeting with my DB coach today. In our last meeting she told me to offer friendship, patience and to be positive and to add humor. Told me to start GAL, which I have and that even tho I have treated her relationship with her male friend as if I am "ok" with their relationship, that I need to let her know I am uncomfortable with as much she does with and for him. I really think that she feels for him as a little brother. He is the type of person leans on my W for everything. He has big financial issues and before I started DBing, I did some checking and she is helping him financially without telling me. I have never brought to her her attention that I know she is helping him but it bothers me that she helps without telling me. This is something I have working on myself in dealing with. It is not a large amount of money just a couple hundred per month. My issue is is that I like the guy and if she would or had gone to the trouble of making him a family friend, I wouldn't have an issue with this. It is the secrecy that bothers me. I know this doesn't make sense.

[Starsky309]

Makes perfect sense to me. It's inappropriate, on both an emotional and the financial level.

Secrets can KILL marriages.


Starsky

[20&lost]

My issue is that I found out these things by checking on her, which is before I started DBing. This is against the DB rules. Since I have read the DB book, I have stopped all checking (spying). If I bring this to her attention, she will feel that I have been spying on her. For example, the other day day, her computer was acting up and she accused me of putting spyware on it. After doing some diagnostics on her computer she found out that her hard drive is going bad. She never did apologize for her accusations and I just let it go.

[Starsky309]

Don't worry about how you found out. The fact is, you found out. Just tell her "I know all about you and _____, including the financial help, and it needs to stop. It's inappropriate and while I know that I myself have been a real hot mess at times in the past, the fact is I've expressed my regret about that and I'm working on it. But I'm not going to remain in a marriage where my wife is carrying on that kind of relationship with another guy."

Do NOT, under any circumstances, reveal the source of your intel.

And keep DBing.


Starsky

[20&lost]

When starting to do a 180, do you also start to set loose boundaries?

The two^^^ are NOT directly connected. Plus, I'm not sure you are in any position to be setting boundaries, especially if they come off as directives to her.

You do Not control her, and don't forget, You checked out of the marriage many years ago, remember? You went "AWOL"....

so you cannot pretend this is some sort of "Selfish MLC" on her part, without any explanation or theory behind it. Her actions have NOT been performed in a vacuum.

Do you see that? I mean, really, do you really GET that?

And truly, I don't mean to sound harsh or as if I'm bashing you with a "2 x 4", but did you really read the DB/ DR books, either of them, and or get a DB coach? What is he/she advising? Do they have the same information we have?


What I would like to say to her is the next time she tells me she is meeting the OM for lunch say "Thank you for telling me. If you think this is proper thing to do and is going to help our marriage, then it is your choice, however, I am uncomfortable with it."

Come on, this^^ is just Nonsense! No one is fooled by it. It's obvious you are attaching judgment to her choice, so why the facade of her deciding "if she thinks it's a proper thing to do"? What's with the pretense? Clearly YOU do NOT think its proper...(never mind how you treated her for all those years....OMG what did you do about all that? I must have missed it but did you seriously own it? Did you SAY so? I"m a little baffled by your indignation, given the past and backstory.

But again, I may have missed the grand apology. Can someone give me details or dates, I realize Caeman is a tad busy...BUT I think you ought to

Either say how you feel or say nothing. NO games. But don't you think she knows how you feel? IF SHE KNOWS, and if you know that she knows,

what is your goal in telling her, again? To win her back or TO shame her? The shaming thing will backfire, and it's not coming from a place of love in your heart, anyway.

Yes, back in December I sat her down along with my children and told them that their father had had some issues and that I knew I had not been there completely for them. Also, that from counseling I was going to, I was in a better place and that I would start being the best husband and father I could be. I told them that I could not make up for the past but that going forward starting that day they would see a new husband and father. They all told me they knew that I loved them and also know even during my dark times that they knew if they really had a problem that I would be there. Since then I have done a 180 in that I am very involved with anything my kids do. Since then I have also been doing the things around the house that my W said I never did that she had wished I been doing like helping around the house(cleaning,yard, dishes, etc...). I also enjoy doing them but I am upset with myself because for many years I didn't pick up on the things I should have done and didn't. I really enjoy being there for all of them and know I missed out on a great deal. I just pray that my W sees it as being to late.

To pressure her with some sort of indirect social pressure? Same thing as trying to shame her. ALSO NOTE that when you try to shame a spouse into coming home and staying home (btw, I've never seen a spouse come home in shame, and stay for long....ever...)

but when you try to shame them, IF they "take it", then they'll seethe with resentment (until they erupt and take you by surprise) b/c they will store up their "grievances" and THEN leave, but they'll probably be better armed legally/financially)

AND OR they'll make sure everyone in your life knows what a horrible spouse/parent you were - to MAKE them leave you.

No spouse can handle shaming and infamy, indefinitely. Who would really want that for them anyhow?

Surely it's no way to have a happy, contented and loving spouse...And that's really what we'd like, isn't it?

But by shaming, guilting and judging them, They will fight back, either openly (which is sort of preferable) or behind your back... which really does some damage to your kids. Beware the passive aggressive behavior that teaches our kids so many lessons about what NOT to do inside a r/marriage.

BE mindful of your true motives in all you do. I found that often times my pride and ego (and what i called my "sense of justice", allowed me to justify a punitive vindictive course of action, ALL under the guise of "justice/fairness", which of course - I got to determine...)

If your motives come from a place of light and love, or at worst, you just let the cards fall where they fall, WITHOUT you having a hand in which direction those cards fall....then you know you can hold you head up and Go in peace.

But if your motives were a bit "tainted", or you let a rumor/nasty comment get passed about your former spouse, OR if you did worse (like start the rumor, or omitting the truth when it helps them, or just out & out lyng about our ex)

OR if you helped to poison any relationships she/he may have had with anyone - but especially their children, then You must OWN THAT ACT, & REVERSE it ASAP, or irreparable damage will be done to that child, AND that parent...(and who knows who else?)

You CAN undo that.

Hang in there! Keep posting.

[25yearsmlc]

I understand that the secrecy bothers you. That IS a problem.

You can talk about how you want no more secrets in the marriage, (and live by that)

and ask your DB coach how to get on the same page as your wife, so she doesn't continue this. I'm not in total agreement with Starsky about "never" revealing your source of info (though I do agree that the secrets will need to stop soon or they'll undermine your progress)

but seems to me, you could tell her the truth, AND that you NOW are not going to snoop but you did before you had your "awakening", and that's what you found and it makes you very uncomfortable.

But again, your DB coach can best advise you on this.

How are you doing with the children? I can't recall if we discussed this, but an involved father is an attractive father. And if it reveals new behavior on your end, all the better. Meaning, it shows that you can change and ARE changing and no woman is unmoved by loving interactions between her children and their father.

Good luck.

[20&lost]

25yearmlc: This is what I replied to in your previous message:

Yes, back in December I sat her down along with my children and told them that their father had had some issues and that I knew I had not been there completely for them. Also, that from counseling I was going to, I was in a better place and that I would start being the best husband and father I could be. I told them that I could not make up for the past but that going forward starting that day they would see a new husband and father. They all told me they knew that I loved them and also know even during my dark times that they knew if they really had a problem that I would be there. Since then I have done a 180 in that I am very involved with anything my kids do. Since then I have also been doing the things around the house that my W said I never did that she had wished I been doing like helping around the house(cleaning,yard, dishes, etc...). I also enjoy doing them but I am upset with myself because for many years I didn't pick up on the things I should have done and didn't. I really enjoy being there for all of them and know I missed out on a great deal. I just pray that my W sees it as being to late.

FYI: I have been very active and involved with everything my children have been doing since I had the talk with them last December.

[20&lost]

Got some great advice from my coach. He told me to stay the course, keep track of the positives, ignore the negatives and not to even mention the OM. Also to continue what I am doing with my 180. That even that my positives are baby steps, they are positives compared to the last 10 months or so.