I've dropped the rope....

[MrBond]

I've seen that website. The all or nothing approach preached on there is totally wrong. Moving on to the next person without figuring out what caused the breakup just moves your issues to another person.

I know you briefly summarized what you thought you did wrong in the M but have you done anything about them? What he's going through really is a lot about him trying to find superficial things to make him feel happy rather than looking inwards.

[MrBond]

For a better read, search for project happily ever after. Better than chump lady who always sounded like she never moved on from her first M and wallows in unresolved anger issues.

[Sotto]

Thanks so much Mr Bond. I'll look up Project Happily ever after. I have posted some draft goals about a page back. If you get chance to have a look, I would welcome comments. I have been putting them into practice.

I think the really big things for me (and for my M) are loosen up, communicate & be more 'foxy.'

[theoden]

Toots,

Hi! Hope all is well with you over the pond. ;-)

I really don't have the best advice for you. My DB efforts didn't work. All I can share is what didn't work for me and extrapolate. I'm like a red-flag on how NOT to save your marriage.

Why did YOU move out when your husband is having an affair? For your sanity? Why didn't he move out?

Aside from that, I think you are taking healthy steps and setting clear boundaries. I've just checked out Project Happily Ever After -- seems decent enough.

I think that the reason I love Chump Lady a lot is that she's like a cold splash of water in the face. She admits she's not very hopeful about genuine reconciliations. Yet she does think it's possible, but she thinks that usually comes from hard-line actions like ultimatums, seeing a lawyer, filing for divorce, etc -- which in some senses forces the cheater/wayward spouse to confront the consequences of their actions. I think Divorce Busting advocates those actions, too, but only after other things have been tried. The problem, however, is that on these boards, the tendency has been to linger in limbo for so long that person being cheated on eventually gets emotionally, physically and financially drained by the affair. In addition, the cheater begins to lose respect for their spouse when they see that their infidelity gets rewarded with a "new and improved" happy spouse (fresh from 180's and GAL-ing) who is all too eager to reconcile. I think the "new and improved" routine only really works when you are really doing for yourself (to maintain sanity) AND with some sort of detachment (meaning they are beginning to wonder what they might be losing out on).

I think you are doing this well, Toots. Only you can decide how much time you want to give your husband to decide what he wants.

My personal experience plus what I've seen on the DB boards lends me to think that in many cases a more hard-line approach would have created a greater sense of respect and attraction of the cheater for the left-behind-spouse. I think the book the Divorce Remedy has provisions for hard-line approaches, but they tend to get side-stepped on these boards if it were not for Starsky. ;-)

Best of luck to you.

Theoden

[theoden]

Toots,

You said:

Some of Starsky's and Theoden's posts really struck a chord too - about the state of mind a WS needs to be in for true reconciliation to happen. My H seems miles away from that.

I'm not sure what gets a person to be in the right state of mind to really reconcile. Some say it's time. I thought so and I was wrong. Others think there's nothing like throwing them out of the house, and giving them an ultimatum and filing for divorce that gets them in the right state of mind quickly to reconcile.

The hope of DB-ing is that our GAL's make you the more attractive option. Perhaps.

I think in your situation, your husband didn't have a ton of complaints about you. It's mostly about his own unhappiness. I think he'll see you are the better option whatever means you choose.

--Theoden

[Sotto]

Hi Theoden, thanks so much for your reply and your interest in my sitch. I'm sorry that things didn't work out for you and wish you happiness going forwards.

I initially left our family home to stay with my parents for a bit after BD. I was born in the house where they still live, and I felt safe there. Safe was a word that came up a lot for me in the very early stages. I didn't feel safe any longer in our family home. I don't mean physically safe, but emotionally. I couldn't bear to stay there. I had moved to that area to join H before we married. And although I have made friends there, I just wanted to be back here with my folks for a bit.

It has also meant that SS and H can use the house at weekends. H works away during the week. Looking back, I wouldn't want to have stayed in the house and disrupted SS at weekends. But in all honesty that wasn't uppermost in my mind at the time I made the decision. It was just survival mode really.

Thanks for your kind comments too. Whether H sees me as the better option in the longer term, who knows. The OW certainly seems to have plenty of appeal ATM!

Toots :-)

[MrBond]

"Some say it's time. I thought so and I was wrong."

For me, giving time worked. So it's different for everyone since everyone is different. Just do what works.

[Sotto]

Have been feeling a bit better the past couple of days. A rental flat has come up that I am interested in, I saw SS and his Mum yesterday and had a good IC session Tuesday.

I hadn't seen SS since July. He & his Mum live a couple of hours away, but he & I have kept in touch by text. It was great that we met, and we had a good time. I was anxious beforehand and worried that I would be emotional - and didn't want him to have to 'deal with' my grief.

But in the event I was fine and we had some good laughs. His Mum & I have always got along fine. She has always said that SS doesn't have a bicycle for support (she and H) - but a tricycle (she, H and me.) And SS has commented before that it's nice everyone is friends.

It was a bit cathartic for me because I felt a lot of guilt about abandoning the 'family' home after BD, and have cried and worried a lot about it. Worried I let SS down. But realistically I didn't feel I could stay at the time.

But yesterday, I could see that we can carry on meeting up as we did and stay in touch, regardless of what H does. We've already said we'll do it again Xmas break.

Do I need to start another thread soon? How do you know when it is time to do that??

[MrBond]

"Do I need to start another thread soon? How do you know when it is time to do that??"

When you're up to about 10 pages. So before Christmas, what are your actions to improve yourself?

[Sotto]

So, my actions to improve myself before Xmas are:

Complete my term of Tai Chi classes (already started) - loosen up/relax
Meditate daily and finish reading book by Jon Kabat Zin - loosen up/relax

Keep up current GAL activities - volunteering, book club, writing group, seeing friends, freelance work - connect with people
Take chances to relax, connect & tease or flirt with others - from my 'one a day' list - connect with people

Complete course of IC to look at the dynamics of our marriage & myself within it - working on my communication

Set up local infidelity support group - my IC and I are looking a this one together - and ideally I would like to do this with her support.

Get settled into a rental flat (currently at my parents, but want more independence again.)