You make some very good points. I agree about it being hard for the WAW to go forward when it relates to going forward in the M with her H.
She doesn't have the DBing language received here (I.e. The old M is dead. This will be our new M.), and it's very difficult for many of them to look at M with the same man being different Even if he has gone many months proving his changes, it is hard to trust him not to fall back into the old ways. And if her feelings of "want to" has stalled, where does she get the energy? she is scared the emptiness will remain.
Sometimes I think the WAW'S forgiveness may have be more difficult......or longer coming, than her H forgiving her of her waywardness and his self improvements. B/c of the length of time behind all that resentment and blame she held. It may seems pretty crazy to suggest such...considering the "degree" of her fall, and I don't mean to imply she's right. Just saying how it is with some. Her pain may, or may not, be comparable to his......IDK. Maybe it is differently defined. However, I do believe her journey is longer and harder. That may be argumentive, depending on the individual stitch, or VP. She has a lot of forgiving to do (of him, and of herself) letting go (of the past, the fantasy/unrealistic dreams of what may have been), repenting (getting her heart right), doing the right thing, withdrawing from the addiction of the A/OP, affair proofing/transparency/accountability, sometimes a pregnancy or STD, other fallout of her wayward lifestyle (ruined family/friend relationships), finding the energy to put the work into the M, make changes to improve the W she use to be before she was a WAW, and pray her feelings will return. Then she heads into piecing!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
She doesn't have the DBing language received here (I.e. The old M is dead. This will be our new M.), and it's very difficult for many of them to look at M with the same man being different Even if he has gone many months proving his changes, it is hard to trust him not to fall back into the old ways. And if her feelings of "want to" has stalled, where does she get the energy? she is scared the emptiness will remain.
Sandi2, where do they get the energy? I know my W wants to work on our M, but she says she doesn't know how.
Your words about the WAW's forgiveness seems to be spot on with my situation. I assume this is something she has to deal with or go through on her own. I am at a loss to help her see the new M as a new R and trust in my changes being permanent. It is disheartening and emotionally taxing to see progress and then her feelings of old relationship return and us turning back to where we started.
I have been keeping up with my changes and finding new changes that I would like to see within myself. I just don't know what else I can do besides keep up with my changes to bring us closer to full reconciliation.
M:34 XW:34 Together: 10y Living: 9y Married: 7y Son:6 Son:4 Separated: 12/28/13 Piecing: 5/2/14 Separated 2nd: 10/16/14 W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14 papers served: 1/27/15 D final: 3/6/15
Sorry, I typed out a lengthy reply yesterday, but I don't see it. So.........I will try again and try to shorten it.
One mountain most WW's have to conquer is the depression. The kind that saps her of physica and mentall energy in areas that should have her full attention. What should seem to be logical motivation.......simply has zero effectiveness on her. As a result, she is even more discouraged and questions herself.
She has to battle the depression as if it is her enemy.......b/c it is. Unaddressed, it could cause her to give up. Depression is bad stuff! The good news, however, is that it can be treated. For me, it took many tries of different anti-depression meds. Her doctor needs to work closely with her.
Therapy works well for some women, as long as she doesn't get one of those who just tell her to go out and find whatever makes her happy. She doesn't need that kind of dime store "counseling".
She needs information to understand what happened to her and what she is experiencing now. Unfortunately, there is a lot of material out there that she doesn't need. She needs to be reinforced in her decision to do the right thing.
She needs a lot of inspiration. Soul food, if you will. For some it is through their spiritual beliefs and they can get guidance from the Pastor/Priest. For some they are uplifted from music. Others benefit through reading self-help books. The caution about books and music is to stay away from any kind that feed a fantasy of a better man, etc. She will need to watch this like a plague.
She needs to have her own boundaries in place for herself. Transparency will help, but she needs to know she cannot go around people who may have encouraged her waywardness. She needs to stay away from the places she may have went during that time (bars, etc.). Don't fall back into old WW habits of going out late without her H, etc. She is still in a vulnerable condition with the depression and she wants relief some days, which is understandable, but she can't find it by taking the path she took in her WW days.
It puts the H in a fragile position b/c he wants to support and help her. However, he has to be careful or it may seem he is pushing, or trying to fix her. It's a delicate line for him. I think the most dangerous sign would be if she shows a strong resentment. If she simply refuses to get help (from some source).
How long it takes varies on the individual. But when the depression starts to lift, I believe she will be able to feel the interest and energy return. This is another process that requires time. Piecing is hard. It is challenging.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Oh btw, during piecing is the time to be friends! Her sexual desire may not return right away. Don't expect her to feel the same as you. Be her friend at this time. Continue to enforce your boundaries and try to be as attractive as possible. But don't expect too much in the bedroom at first.
Have fun together and with others. Plan ahead and don't get lazy. Take care of yourself. Be charming. Use her LL.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Wow, Sandi. Very insightful. I am saving that one. I think it greatly applies in my situation as well.
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
Sandi- Though I think I know the answer to this - I'll ask anyway.
You said: For some they are uplifted from music. Others benefit through reading self-help books. The caution about books and music is to stay away from any kind that feed a fantasy of a better man, etc. She will need to watch this like a plague.
Will it backfire to suggest that the music she is listening to or the places she goes may be fueling her attachment to OM? or to suggest that this should be treated like an addiction (if she wants to quit)? Does she not realize this? Or does that HAVE to come from her - when she is ready?
Me-45 W-44 S21, S18, D15 T-27, M-21 BD Jan 2014 PA revealed March 2014 In-house separation - April 2015 I filed - Aug 2015 She moved out Oct 2015
Will it backfire to suggest that the music she is listening to or the places she goes may be fueling her attachment to OM? or to suggest that this should be treated like an addiction (if she wants to quit)? Does she not realize this? Or does that HAVE to come from her - when she is ready?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are not in piecing, right? The previous posts were about a WAW who is in piecing, and I don't want anyone getting confused about the difference between a WAW in piecing and one who has continued her waywardness.
I do not believe your WW is trying to obtain help from her lifestyle. Until she goes to you, willingly....without you pushing, and says she wants to R the M and wants to know what it will take.....then she will not be receptive to anything you try to suggest to her. B/c she has to have a change of heart before she will listen to you. Otherwise, she'll write it off as you trying to control her.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Well, Sandi, I'm in the pre-piecing stage right now. A has ended but W has no desire to R - says she needs to find herself.
Just a bit of a glitch. I asked her what she is accusing me of and she just rehashed that I went on line first week of January to look for a hook-up. Thinks I'm scum for doing that. Even though she was in a full blown affair at the time and I did remind her of that - "yeah I was sending winks and messages to other ladies on these web site while you were under the sheets with another man while still my wife." Needless to say that convo didn't end well. I did admit to viewing porn and she doesn't approve of that, but we haven't ML since Aug 2013 and even then she was in an EA if not a PA although I was unaware at the time.
The porn thing has been a huge issue in our M. Before we were married we were both enjoying looking a porn, but when she found out I was looking when she wasn't with me she freaked out claiming it just like cheating. I disagreed saying it was just a visual stimulant for me while pleasuring myself in her absence. She felt I was dismissing her feelings. I felt she was blowing out of proportion. But eventually I relented and stopped.
After she moved out of the bedroom over a year ago I started again - I'm a visual guy and need the visual stimulation. But now that she knows I'm looking again she says I haven't changed. Tells me to grow up.
Needless to say the convo went south last night. No hug or kiss goodbye (oh yeah, I was at home last night when she called me to come to the RH to fix the gas fireplace which had lost its pilot light, so I rushed over to fix it - that's when we had the brief but derisive convo.)
Today she drove me to a medical procedure I had to undergo and afterwards we had a lovely dinner together and she dropped me off at home, left and came back again to have a coffee with me and chat. Then she left with a kiss & hug. She's sent me multiple texts tonight and called me twice.
So it seems she wants to be friends but doesn't want to R. She has a problem with me. But if we don't talk about the R then things are good. When we do talk R then things go downhill rapidly. So R talk is a cheeseless tunnel at this time. Being friends and keeping it light and fun leads to more connection.
So when it comes to R talk I'll just STFU.
I still need to figure out how to deal with the porn thing. Maybe I should just stop viewing it. Then wait for that change to make itself apparent to her which will take a long time.
M: 59 W: 53 M: 9 yrs T: 14 yrs No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine) W moved out 11/18/2013 D-Day 12/14/2013 W moved back home 12/1/2014
I still need to figure out how to deal with the porn thing. Maybe I should just stop viewing it. Then wait for that change to make itself apparent to her which will take a long time.
Peter, if you finally decide to do something about this, it should be for YOU. Not to get some reaction out of her. If and when she is re-committed to the marriage, then YES it would need to be a demonstrable thing you do in order to address her concern, but while she is still uncommitted to the marriage and you guys are not having a sex life? I personally don't see anything wrong with it. What does she expect you to do, go see prostitutes???
