"I do sense you want some form of guarantee that you WILL get her back if you do X and Y, and it simply does not work that way."
Yeah, i knew it, it's just something I did not want to accept.
See, I don't get this^^. I see your wife's actions as unfortunate BUT not incomprehensible at all. Nor do I see her actions as "unhealthy", although I must concede, I don't know the OM. But if he is kind to her, and attentive to the kids and would make a good provider, then I could argue that her choice is quite rational.
I think what I really mean by this is he is married, he cheated on his wife 2x. I know it does not matter. But I think a part of me wants to believe that they are doomed to fail. Not that it would result in us together - just Not him being her happiness. Selfish I think.
You didn't know that moms want the dads to spend time alone with the kids?
I did, but it was always in home. I never took them to the park or the store (all 3 at once). And when we were home , I didn't do alot then either. I mean I did play with them, it was just sporadic, and not nearly as much as it could have been. I was not a bad father, just not a very good one.
About her faults. I understand. I know I am not 100% blame. I might need more help with this yet.
When did you attempt that? How did you fail? Can you elaborate on how sweet you were to her?
When it came to things that were immediate I would not hesitate. I.E going to the store to get her something. Moving a piece of furniture. Fixing something that was broken. I would always hold her hand or let her grab my arm when we would walk. i never missed a kiss before one of us left the house. I always said I love you, and called her beautiful. I used to thank her, several times a week - she'd ask why, I'd say "for loving me". I kiss her forehead at least once a day. When we hugged, I'd move her hair and kiss her neck.
I don't think you made your life about her so much as you placed your needs in her lap. Can you see why I'd say that?
I agree.. the things that mattered were helping cleaning the house. the mess in the back yard and the basement. My desk was always a mess. I didnt vaccuumm, dishes, garbage. I mean i did them, but late or delayed, after nagging. I was not dilligent.
And as for the Bills - all our money was in a joint account . .i never bought anything for myself--save for cigarettes or soda. every other penny i made when to whatever needed to be paid. .Seriously . i never had any money. . didnt need it.
Do your children attend the local school, or are they bused to another town? Check for school events, and if you can get there, go support it and meet other people there. It also makes your kids feel excited when their dad shows up for school sponsored activities. Do your kids have classmates nearby? Maybe you could offer to keep them one Saturday afternoon while their parents take a break. Ask them to bring a sack lunch and have a picnic. Some parents may actually want to join in. Plan old fashion outdoor games. These type of fun times don't require much money. Use your imagination, and think of other things you can do with your kids, and to meet their parents.
Does the town have a local newspaper? (I onced lived in a place so small there was no news, much less a paper to tell about it.). But if you are lucky enough to have one, watch to see if there is ever anything happening in the community. You may not feel a ton of interest at first, but it will get you exposed to people and maybe open doors to new friendships.
Look around and see if there is something you can do for a elderly or disabled person. Nothing that requires you spending money, just an act of kindness and giving of yourself.
If there is some type of community hospital, nursing home, soup kitchen, whatever......see what you can do to offer yourself in being there for another person. If there are none of these places, look at your neighbors. People need people, and so many are lonely or need a hand extended to them. In other words, get out and make yourself available where there are people.
These things not only open new doors, but help build character and give back blessings. They usually teach us something about ourselves or life. Not to mention what it does for us when we help another human being. Where there are people there are needs, and when we try to help others....it has a very healing affect on ourselves.
Are you lucky enough to have a library? Need I say more? If not, then research the Internet for all kinds of help in personal growth, spiritual help, goal setting, etc.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you Sandi2. I will look into some of those things. You are right, the interest is not there yet...but why not
Because inertia has been your companion for far too long, that's why. You're used to not doing much outside of being around your family.
Don't wait for the interest to come; chances are it won't. You have to force yourself at first.
Just like forcing yourself to be extra courteous to others, eventually makes one become more polite and giving, and then, actually happier.
IN the TED Talks I suggest, (Amy Cuddy and Shawn Achor) they speak of DOING things or taking actions that then create the emotion we want. So reverse the concept of "waiting to feel it and THEN behaving or doing it that way" and instead
DO IT FIRST and in time, the emotions accompany it. Sort of an "outside inside" approach. That's why you cannot "wait" for an interest in pottery or a foreign language or dance or any volunteer activity to arise; you have to go DO one and then the emotions follow.
Did ANY of the activities I listed on my GAL list, spark anything? Can you at least imagine doing one (or one of Sandi's suggestions) and NOT HATING IT?
That's the one to start with. Another version of "Love the one you're with" is to learn to Love what you are doing.
RE the kids---You can also have "game nights" with the kids and make homemade pizza or whatever decent cheap food they like. Open up the sofa bed or lay down sleeping bags and have a "kid party". Watch a flick they like or just do the games. You have to DO more with them; not necessarily spend more on them.
Good luck!
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Despite having read the rules 50 times. Is there ever a time that i should initiate any conversations with my wife? Any conversation at all. And during the midst of the affair - what should I avoid, and what should I be sure to include.
My gut tells me no, no initiation whatsoever. But since we have no link, as I have mentioned. I feel a bit (and asking here as we know my emotions drive me) like I need to open the door to conversation somehow - whatever it's substance. Should it be a letter or a phone call, or in a public place in person.
I am asking not because I think it's a good idea. I am asking because I do not want to allow my own feelings to justify something that would be a mistake and need an honest answer to validate the option.
If not then I will not. My gut says patience, it will happen in time. My heart says there is so much I want to explain - and again I believe I know that now is just not the time. Especially as long as she thinks she is in love - nothing I say will make the slightest difference.
Everyone has to look at their individual stitch and see how things need to be applied.
I am not sure what conversation you want to have with her. Does she still have a RO against you?
Are you referring to just being courteous and speaking? Having a civil discussion about plans with the kids or whatever?
The idea behind the "rule" is to guide the LBS in the beginning of all this, and to hopefully help with detaching. But I think the one you may be referring to is this one:
"When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad."
As you'll notice, it is targeting couples who are still living under the same roof.
Each person has to weigh in the particular issues of their stitch and decide what works.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Everyone has to look at their individual stitch and see how things need to be applied.
I am not sure what conversation you want to have with her. Does she still have a RO against you?
The RO was lifted now it is a Court Order - My lawyer stated that a RO is like a sword - touch it you get cut. But a Court order is like a shield - It specifically says that "peaceful contact about the welfare of the children" - for 1 year...... but lawyer says if she chooses to talk to me thats ok, but what is said cannot be in any way inferred as hostile or threatening. Which it wouldnt be, no interest in being hurtful toward her.
Are you referring to just being courteous and speaking? Having a civil discussion about plans with the kids or whatever?
No, I think we have that ok - i mean once every 2 days and only about 3 texts, but it's there. My original question after thinking about it was stupid I think. She thinks she's in love with the OM - nothing I could possibly say would matter - regardless of how true or real it was.
The idea behind the "rule" is to guide the LBS in the beginning of all this, and to hopefully help with detaching. But I think the one you may be referring to is this one:
"When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad."
As you'll notice, it is targeting couples who are still living under the same roof.
Yes, we are not living under the same roof. And that is my fault. I was not emotionally strong enough - and I knew it. I decided to leave to give her space and time - at the time I did not know of the OM at all. Moving out was a huge mistake, but at the time, I thought staying would have been due to my emotional roller coaster.
What bugs me is that now we are not under the same roof, there is NO communication at all regarding the sitch. If thats expected than Ill accept it. I think that it makes this much harder. And since she is having an Exit Affair - it is evident that she is conflict avoidant - she will hide behind that court order until she is ready to talk, or the affair dies.
Each person has to weigh in the particular issues of their stitch and decide what works.
I suppose if I really had to ask a question it would be - during her affair, is any conversation at all plausible.
I suppose if I were to write a letter or have a conversation it would basically be a statement of intent.
Something along the lines of (worded correctly):
I am learning from my mistakes, I am making progress in understanding my role in this separation. I want to be a better father, and someday I want to be a better husband. I understand where you are right now. You see me as a man that is trying to win you over so that I can settle again once we get back together. You might be afraid to make that choice. I don't blame you, every time we have had this problem, I am better for awhile and I slump back to a normalcy that you do not want.
The only difference is that this time I have had a true awakening. I will prove it to you that I am a better man, that I will be a better man; but I will do this for it is necessary. It is not For you, it is for me and our children. If you choose to accept it someday then all the better. If not then I will be a better man all the same.
I now know where I went wrong, and the damage I have caused. I am holding on and will fight for this marriage for as long as I can hold out, because I believe in the potential of us.
I am not ready to word this better. But I believe that I need to state my intention to some degree. We have not talked about this for over a month, and I did not have this understanding then.
