still holding on - 5

[u-turn]

I am thinking of sending a reply to her message:

"I agree that it is comfortable to feel this way and it's all we've had our entire adult lives, but I do not see how that is a bad thing if we grow together.

I've said this before, one of the key parts of a marriage is forgiveness. We have both made mistakes and bad decisions in our lives that we have learned from.

I feel that if we are both in this we can work through this. I would like to hear any solutions that you may have.

I do not agree that you are not worthy of my time or love. I do not see it that way. That is my decision to make.

But I do feel that I cannot keep trying to pressure you to be my wife again. I do not want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with me."

[u-turn]

I sent this through to her:
"I agree that it is comfortable to feel this way and it's all we've had our entire adult lives, but I do not see how that is a bad thing if we grow together. I would like to know your thoughts about this.

I've said this before, one of the key parts of a marriage, I believe, is forgiveness. We have both made mistakes and bad decisions in our lives that we have learned and can still learn from. We've made so many good decissions too that have given us so much.

If we are both in this I think we can work through this. But I do not know if you are there. I still feel like you will not let me in. I would like to hear any solutions that you may have.

I do not agree that you are not worthy of my time or love. I do not see it that way. That is my decision to make.

But I do feel that I cannot keep trying to pressure you to be my wife again. I do not want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with me.

I know this is difficult for both of us and we both have decisions to make."

It's a bit all over the place, but I felt that I wanted to respond.

[HPoirot]

Hey u-turn... my opinion is you gave her too much in your response. Her text wasn't asking you for anything. She was making a statement about how she wants to see things. She is rationalizing. She likely also hopes you'll agree so she will feel less guilty about what she is doing.

I would say in future you say something like... "Yes this is a terrible place we're in. I can see how you can feel the way you feel."

Validating without agreeing with her view.

[u-turn]

Thanks HP
probably too much - I've done that too often I guess.
Sometimes I just want to continue a dialog.

I doubt she will respond to this in any way thought - she rarely does.

[T-Mom]

Wow. I am just reading this and feeling so much of your pain... literally, because my life is so similar right now. I think, often enough, we are getting mixed messages because they are sending mixed messages... but that's just what I have always thought and definitely isn't gospel. Hang in there.... you are sooooo not alone.

[HPoirot]

Thanks HP
probably too much - I've done that too often I guess.
Sometimes I just want to continue a dialog.

I doubt she will respond to this in any way thought - she rarely does.

Yeah don't look to continue dialog. I know it feels great when Ws are talking with us. It is a trap because you can go too far into the friend zone. More than anything your W wants to feel heard and accepted. When she says something like what she said... don't lecture or try to fix her. You did that. Just validate what she said. It tells her you are listening and accepting her as she is now. That goes a long way b/c you are being strong enough to accept her even though she knows you don't like the choices she is making. That is attractive. You just tried to change your W. Enough of that and they will punish you (by not responding to your flowery love texts).

[u-turn]

I should know this. I feel that I can easily turn this into us being best friends again - she would go along with this. I think it is what she wants.

If I held her hand she would go along.
If I kissed her, she would go along - it would stop there, but she has looked for small affection from me.
If I talked to her about anything but us, she would go along.

I don't want to only be this best friend & room mate. I fear the friend zone.

There will be nothing to validate if I do not initiate something. She would only talk about work. But sprinkle in normal family plans (which drives me a little crazy because it is just ignoring the elephant).

[HPoirot]

I am learning this the hard way u-turn.

This feeling you have... "I can easily turn this into us being best friends again - she would go along with this. I think it is what she wants."

Yes our Ws would likely be fine with that b/c that is their plan. They don't want to hurt our feelings, but they really don't want anything from us except needed stuff like money, parenting, a home, and space.

We have got to turn away from them and get busy doing our own thing. I know this is hard. I fail at this daily and cannot keep doing this. I writing this to you to remind myself. You cannot talk your way out of the friend zone by initiating talks with her. The validating is only to not make things worse when she initiates talks with you. You are trying to fix this by initiating talks with her. Talking does not work. I know because I did that this morning and shot myself in the foot again. Just get out of the house and get very busy taking care your own business and leave her to her life. The best chance of her starting to admire and love you again is to STFU and grow into an interesting busy man.

[u-turn]

I feel my anger building again - I am so tired of this.
I am tired of this game that she wants to play and is obsessed with "winning". (looking back - she has done this many times in some manner - I just changed me and avoided the conflict)

I even see her now trying to win every argument with the kids and she gets angry with them when she isn't winning. I know this upsets the kids and I see them trying to make her happy.

I want to tell them to ignore her when she gets like that- I have learned to not argue - she is obsessed with winning - I have been struggling with this for almost a year and I have learned to let it go. But I also don't want to cause change in their opinion of their mother. I do not defend her to them though. I will correct them if they are being unfair.

I do not see this getting better or lasting much longer like this - unless I put myself back in the friend zone and let my feelings fester.

[u-turn]

Thanks T-mom - this came in today - you are probably still on moderation.

The mixed messages seem to be on purpose sometimes - like moving chess pieces - to control the situation.