afraid I have waited too long #4

[nit84]

I saw my IMC counselor this Morning. I went over the last months goings on and She was surprised about the OMW coming to see me. I also showed my Counselor the list that I found from my W

She said it is very helpful to have it because it shows my W perception of our M. The things she saw in the list were everything that her and I have tackled over the last 18 months and it is good that I have done this without the benefit of seeing the list.

She says the story of our separation is still unfolding to some extent and by me doing what I have been doing it puts me in a good place no matter what happens.

We ran out of time so I didn't get ask her what I should do now. Do I attempt to contact my W and ask her about this list? Do I tell her that the OMW has been to see me? I think it was 25 or Sandi2 that said "sometimes the best action is no action at all" I apologize if it was another Vet that said this but now I am a bit confused on my next step.

Any help is welcomed

[Wonka]

Nit,

Saw that you asked for some help over in Vertex's thread so here I am. So sorry for being MIA for so long. Crazy stuff has happened and it's tough keeping up with threads that are pretty fast moving these days.

First of all, I would put away the list for some other time. Now is not the time to bring it up for: 1) it would make W feel that you invaded her privacy from her perspective despite the fact that she left the list behind and 2) W is still actively engaged in a full-blown A with the OM with no sign of let up.

It would not be advisable to share or inform W that OMW has been around to chat with you. File it away. It is between you and OMW. I find it interesting that OMW confronted W about the A and to stay away from the OM. Apparently it had no effect on W whatsoever.

Yes, inaction is also action. Sometimes doing nothing produces the desired results.

I suggest that you pull back on the emails to W. Don't be too available to her.

What is the status of your situation right now? W living at home or? Where are you with S papers? How long has the A been doing on to date?

[nit84]

Wonka,

Glad you are back.

My W is living with her Grandmother, although I am not supposed to know this. D complaint was filed back in April. W asked for Spousal support in June. W stayed in M home till end of Sept.

We have exchanged settlement proposals and her L thinks we are too far apart to reach an agreement so they want to break off negotations till the 2 year S date(theirs).

From what OMW says it has been going on Since Feb 2014. I think it has been a PA for 14 months and a EA since our S in June 2013.

I was real careful with what info I shared with OMW. I didn't want to divulve too much to her.

I have only emailed my W twice and that was in last 10 days and was just about paying bills for the last month she was living here. Other than that she emailed me twice in Oct and that is the extent of our contact in 2 1/2 months.

IMHO, My W had a plan She wanted OM to move out of OMW house so they could move in together. She has been trying to find OM a job since July. So far to no avail. W waited 2 months to move out after OM did. Not sure why.

OMW tells me that OM is at the house everyday and they are still intimate on occasion. He is sleeping at a friends house at night.

Maybe that is why my W is living with Grandma because those plans haven't work the way she planned.

OMW said she wished she had come to me earlier but didn't in the 3 confrontations they had OMW said W was arrogant when they were alone but when OM was there she was real nervous like a jealous school girl. and would watch them talk alone peeking through windows

OM has continued to lie to OMW about any A and says to just mind her business. They have 2 children together 11 and younger and OMW just wants her family back and the lies to stop.

OM is just 1 year younger than I am, not that that makes any difference but I always thought W thought I was too old to start a family.

W mentioned back in July that she no longer wanted children with anybody. I believe this do to the fact that OM already has a family and doesn't want any more kids.

Knowing my W she is only saying she doesn't want kids because of OM lack of interest in any new ones. But deep down she wants Children just like for the longest time she wanted them with me but I was selfish.

I can fill in any other questions you may have. Thanks Again!!

[Wonka]

Thank you, Nit.

We have exchanged settlement proposals and her L thinks we are too far apart to reach an agreement so they want to break off negotations till the 2 year S date(theirs).

Can you please describe the areas where you two are far apart?

Also the areas where there's general agreement.

IMHO, My W had a plan She wanted OM to move out of OMW house so they could move in together. She has been trying to find OM a job since July. So far to no avail. W waited 2 months to move out after OM did. Not sure why.

Possible. We just don't know. It is W's problem, not yours.

It seems that this A is pretty complicated given that OM has a family and appears not to want to leave his family. I sense that the affair will eventually fizzle out or OM will make the decision to end it if W pushes him to decide between her or OMW. Oftentimes, when there's an A with OM with a family, the woman who he's having an affair with tend to PUSH for a decision and most of the time the OM always falls back on the path of least resistance: his own family and wife.

When was the last time you had a face-to-face encounter with W? In what content did it take place? How wast the interaction?

What have you been doing with GAL?

[nit84]

Wonka,

Basically I believe my W has a money figure in mind and her L is mixing a lot of accounts from back when we S and then using more recent number for the retirement plans. My W asked me to find out how much I would be eligible for if I were to refinance the home. I did this and when she was asking me what I wanted property wise about two months later I said I have something for you also to discuss. I let her finish and we were in somewhat agreement over property.

Then she said "what do you have for me?" I told her what value the bank put on the house and the basis of the loan. I knew she wouldn't be happy with the banks value estimate(I was overjoyed because I felt the house was not worth what the bank thought. To cover my bases I had a private appraisal done where he actually walked through the house. That appraisal came in 10,000 less than the bank's.

When I explained to my W that I would assume all the marital debt if she just signed a paper recognizing I borrowed money in my name only against a house she is still part owner of we could get that out of the way. As it works out I would have been able to borrow exactly what our entire debt would be so by assuming her portion it was like a 50/50 split. She would have absolutely no debt and I would have a house that actually is not worth the amount I refinanced it for but would take that risk because I love the and plan on fixing it up once money is available.

Once she had seen the figures she got upset because she was saying she couldn't believe our house went down in value since the last refinance in 2003. I told her it stinks that it did but we haven't kept it up like we should have.

She said I told you to refinance 3 years ago. I said you did and we tried but we hadn't hit the needed debt to equity ratio yet but in 2 to 3 years if we stayed the course it was likely that we could do it then.

Problem is at some point my W jump off the ship because she didn't believe me that this would happen. When I told her this is what we were working towards and it finally happened even though we are separated and she lost her job. She was incensed. I said I never lost sight of the goal and I kept you up to date the whole time. This S stinks but I still kept up with what was a goal ours even if now it is only me.

I told her when we first S that "a D would Emotionally and Financially devastate us both." She heard "This will finanically devastate you."

She believes she deserves more property and money because she makes less money and because she has to start over.

We agree that their should be no Alimony Post D and we both should pick up our own legal fees.

Not sure if that will change if there is another proposal given to me.


The last time I was face to face with my W was at a Funeral for a friends 4 month old baby.

She had basically lost touch with these friends after the S where I had not When the tragedy happened I was supportive when they needed or wanted me. I was in touch with the family and once the Baby passed away I didn't get the new till the next day because I was letting them handle it on their term.

I checked my email that morning and my W actually emailed me that previous night saying he had passed. This was the 1st contact since she moved out 10 days previous. I answered her saying I was praying and knew it was bad but did not know he passed thanks for letting me know.

At the funeral home I went to the viewing and knew I wouldn't see my W because she was still working. It was really sad.

I told the family I would be there for the Funeral the next day. I wasn't positive my W would come but when I pulled in to the lot I saw her car and said ok just act cool because when you go in she will be there. So I thought anyways. I got out of my car and headed for the door I heard a car door shut and the hurried pace of high heeled shoes. I just kept my normal gait not looking behind me. the paced slowed and I knew that walk, it was my W. I still continued in to the home not looking back.

Once through line I stood in an area. My W was behind me and I thought I heard her say "hey" in a soft voice. She went around me and stood in front of me and I said "hi" she didn't say anything then she turned and came towards me I asked her a quick question about the color that everybody was wearing and she answered and walked away. We stood at opposite ends during the service. It was emotional for me. I was tearing up and when I looked over at her she also was crying. At Least I know she still has feelings.

After the service she left right away. Later that evening I went over to the house with the family to comfort them. Strangely, They asked if My W and I came together. I said no and they said it sure looked that way and how she seemed to wait for me show up before entering the Funeral home.

That was our only face to face in almost 3 months now.

I agree with you on the A. that is why I am patiently waiting but also still working on myself.


My W has tightened her circle up real tight. She has forgotten or ignored all her friends except the couple of new ones from the gym she joined before we S. OM is a trainer there and this is how A started. She told me about other male friends she had at the Gym but I can't see any of them having interest in her after she made her choice of the trainer.

If this A fizzles, she has pretty much burned a lot of bridges with mutual friends, she will have to build new relationships with them or others. If she were to decide to work on our M my friends who were mutual told me they would still be friends with us. They would support our efforts to R and not judge my W or I. She doesn't know this. My W believes all these friends have taken my side and that is why she dropped them.

As far as GAL. I volunteer at my good friend Dog Grooming shop to be around the dogs and cats. In fact I am playing Santa Claus for them for pictures. I have played Santa in the past for Children at the club I belong to. Unfortunately it recently closed but before it did I would go there on Friday and Saturday nights. The running joke is that the Club shut down because I stopped drinking and there was no money to pay the light bill. My W and I would spend probably 100.00 every weekend when we were there.

I also love to watch Airplanes take off and Land so I go out to the closest airport and sit and watch them while sometimes journaling.

My Nephew Plays College Hockey Local to me so I go watch all his games. That is not new but Before We would miss some because we had other things to do now I make sure I don't miss any. I joined a different gym than my W actually a couple. I was going faithfully but then got busy at work so that has stopped but I need to get back into it over the winter.

Believe it or not I consider Cleaning my house a GAL activity because it is something I wanted to do but didn't because my W took it as a slap in the face that I was trying to clean to show her up and therefore we always ended up arguing about it so it never got done. I have been back in the house for a year next week and I started to clean back then but now that it is just me It is easier. I don't have the money to do the renovation work I want to do because it is tied up in this mess.

I continue to go to the same concerts I did when we were happy and still will attend a Nascar event that is a yearly thing.


Sorry this so long but I couldn't figure out how to shorten it.

Thanks again for any help.

[nit84]

Another GAL I forgot to mention is and this could be considered a 180 also.

For a year now I have returned to going to church almost every Sunday and my W has certainly noticed this and is upset that I am going. Her exact words were "I am glad you are going to church because GOD know you wouldn't do that for me." I responded "I am doing it for me but you are certainly more than welcome to join me at any time it is an open invitation."

Wonka, I also saw on another thread where you suggested this man Forgive himself and his XW.

I have done this and it is very freeing to say the least and it has allowed me not to build resentment for my W and to allow me to continue to stand for my M.

I still have my weak moments but they pass much more quickly when I remember that I have forgiven myself for past wrongdoings and for current things my W is doing.

It is a shame that other friends and family see this new Nit and my W won't allow herself to believe it will stick. I know she has noticed all the changes and fully understand her choice not to come back to the M at this moment but that is what hurts. I did all these things for me and I am a much better man for it. I venture to say even a better man than the one my W fell in love with.

The new Nit WANTS to share himself with my W I do not NEED to share me with my W.

After all we have been through she deserves first shot at this new Man I have become. I fully recognize though that she may not, for her own reasons, take advantage of this chance.

[Wonka]

Nit,

I am/have been working on a proposal and putting the finishing touches on it. As you can see, I'd rather have fun with my DB friends than the paper! Ha!

Hey, this girl has her priorities....

I am glad to hear about your GAL activities. Good for you!

For a year now I have returned to going to church almost every Sunday and my W has certainly noticed this and is upset that I am going. Her exact words were "I am glad you are going to church because GOD know you wouldn't do that for me." I responded "I am doing it for me but you are certainly more than welcome to join me at any time it is an open invitation."

Oops...you missed out on a golden opportunity to validate W. If something similar comes up again, you could say, "Thank you for that. Wow, I didn't realize that you felt you were not important. I am sorry that you felt that way. That could not be further from the truth. You are valuable. You have an open invitation to join me at anytime."

Then walk away with a cheery smile.

Act as if you're happy with yourself and life. That type of attitude is contagious!

[nit84]

Wonka, No doubt I missed that particular chance. It was back in July

I have validated things my W has said since. Maybe not enough though, or the right way.

She is not living with me anymore so I will have to make the most of any opportunity I get.

I have been given the gift of time. I just wish I had used the time I have already had in a better way.

Hopefully from now on things will be different when(if) we see each other. I am hoping that this physical S is helpful for both my W and I.

I don't like it but it was probably the best thing.

My only issue is the next possible time I will see my W is in early Jan for the Spousal Support modification hearing and neither one of is going to be in good mood I suspect. I will appear cheery and all but underneath it will be all twisted.

I don't think we will be exchanging loving glances that day.

I have enjoyed my "alone" time but I would prefer if my W and I had at least a little more contact outside of the hearing office where things weren't so adversarial.

Not necessarily her living back at home with me at this point but maybe a smidgeon of "I had it pretty good, and now I'm conflicted." if that makes any sense.

Thanks again

[Wonka]

Nit,

Yeah...it is tough and your W seems to think that you're out to rip her off. That is typical for many WASes who think that they can ride on the so-called gravy train of D. Not the case. Oh well, they'll find out shortly.

The only thing I can suggest is sending out a very simple text to W wishing her a Merry Christmas and leave it at that. That is what Ms. Wonka and I did over the past 10 years...we exchanged Xmas, HBD, and HNY texts. Then our texts have become more regular this year after March 2014 with 1x per month texts initiated by Ms. Wonka.

[nit84]

Wonka,

Thank You!! I will have to send an email as she has got her own cell phone account and didn't give me the number.

I know the number though because she left her contract and invoice behind. I don't think it is a good at this point to let her know I know her number.

Here is a question though. Last Year I sent out Christmas cards to her family. I first asked a Cousin of my W before I did. The Cousin thought it was very good idea. My W asked me if I sent cards and I said Yes. She just looked at me and said nothing and I didn't continue the discussion after I said Yes.

This Cousin has unfriended me on social media back around when my W handed me the D complaint. Probably more out of support for my W than hatred for me.

Should I send cards this Year? Should I contact the Cousin again this year to see if she thinks it is still a good idea? A text between us would be private if neither of us told my W. On social media it could be seen that we are still friends.


I don't want to get into any discussion with this Cousin just a simple question like last year.

I have no way of knowing currently when but should I send the Merry Christmas then Happy New Year wishes at times that my W may be with OM?