Maybell XXIV

[Maybell]

I just read Card's thread about the convo with his W about the porn. That was really interesting. I'm in his W's shoes almost exactly. My H is in Card's shoes. But Card sees the impact porn had on his M. I don't know that my H ever would. But I could be wrong.

I'm not saying this to fixate. I feel calmer than I did. I see this is a long journey and it has to play out. And maybe (likely?) not recover, because we both have to change and he seems not to be motivated. I'm just musing.

I missed some opportunities to validate my H on Saturday. He was complaining, lightly, that S6 woke him up by climbing into bed with him at 5:30 and that S6 had gotten sick. But I was annoyed he'd complain about that because I get up at 5:30 every morning now and S6 climbs into bed with me every night between 12:00 and 3:00. I didn't feel inclined to extend sympathy to a guy who has always, and continues, to get hours more sleep than me all the time. I guess that was score keeping.

This matters because even letting him go I have to be able to conduct SOME kind of co-parenting relationship with him and that won't work if I'm always resenting how lopsided things are. I have to be able to tolerate that.

Does that mean give him his sympathy when he's asking for it? And just swallowing his lack of concern for my circumstances?

He's going to be traveling internationally most of January (missing the boys' birthdays and an important Scouting event) so I have plenty of opportunity coming up to detach a little more and get my head on straight. Once I figure what direction straight is.

[claire7]

Maybell, stop reading MY mind.

The lopsided sleep issue has been huge for me and my M, too. Grr.

I had a real epiphany the other night. I get it now. If you are truly moving forward, if you are truly detached, then yes-- you can be neighborly and offer some empathy (in a limited way), and not expect the same from him.

So, what can you expect from him? A respectful co-parenting relationship. He gets to live his life, and you get to live yours--- with no score-keeping.

You get to decide how much sympathy you can offer.

Imagine a co-worker--- you know, the kind of person who likes to complain. You listen, and nod with understanding, you say, "Man, that [censored]. I'm sorry to hear it." Then, you turn around and go about your happy day. You don't unload your problems on that person, and you don't let their stuff impact your life. You are kind and friendly. And you are detached.

That's what I'm working on, anyways...

[Maybell]

Very nice. Thanks for presenting the target so neatly.

[Maybell]

H asked again via email about dinner on Christmas eve. I need to answer him.

On my own I would say no. I feel like he just wants the pleasure of family time on the holiday and none of the obligation that comes with a family (me) the rest of the year while he lives his fancy bachelor life. But on the way to school this morning S8 said "isn't it sad to celebrate a holiday with a family member missing?" (Though I'm sure H had no issue with that on Thanksgiving).

H will be with us Christmas morning and he has them that weekend.

Any thoughts how I should handle this?

[SunnyB]

The lopsided sleep issue has been huge for me and my M, too. Grr.

My H once told someone, in front of me, that all our children slept through the night as infants. Ummmmmm.....no, H....YOU slept through the night. None of our kids or I did.

[SunnyB]

H asked again via email about dinner on Christmas eve. I need to answer him.


Any thoughts how I should handle this?

Handle it with what makes you comfortable. In my case, it's clear-cut what my kids want (all five of us together), and I'm going to accommodate them. That means spending both Christmas Eve and Christmas Day with H. And I don't mind. If I couldn't stand being around him, the answer would be different.

If your kids don't care, or if you really can't tolerate him, then do what you already have planned and decline Christmas Eve. What do YOU want, Maybell?

[Maybell]

H is spending most of Christmas Eve with the kids because I have to work. I have fun plans for that evening that involve my kids' dear friends and I think I'm going to keep them (H is not really welcome in their house, though he would be if we reconciled). Kids get plenty of Christmas time with their dad either way so I'm going to pass on dinner.

It took me all day to think this through. This is why I am not as detached as I ought to be. I'm not sufficiently decisive.

RPP, it's not that I can't stand him, but I think I'm going to hit my limit just on Christmas Day. I'm just not so good that I can spend that many hours with him and come out ok. I'll show my changes on Christmas morning. I'm sorry for my kids but I didn't create here conditions.

I've been really following Card's porn conversation. When D11 was newborn I caught him on it in the middle of the day when he was supposed to be job hunting and we had a long conversation about the things that weren't working in our sex life. We made some mutual promises to one another. His included a promise not to go back to it. After BD I asked him if he'd ever kept that promise even for a short time and he said no, and that it was unreasonable of me to expect that any guy would. So he's been lying to me about that for 11 years.

I know, let go, let go, let go. I'm trying. But then all these ideas come up. And I don't know what to do with them besides come here.

The new IC may be a dud. She doesn't take credit card and spent a ton of time on the phone this morning talking about insurance. I have an HSA card. Square & Paypal devices are free except the fees which is less than 1% of the charge. There ought to be no conversation about this considering she accepts my plan and isn't my deductible my business if I have a card to pay her with?

[Maybell]

Or I'm not decisive because I'm not as detached as I ought to be. Can't wait till the holidays are over.

[Card29]

I've been really following Card's porn conversation. When D11 was newborn I caught him on it in the middle of the day when he was supposed to be job hunting and we had a long conversation about the things that weren't working in our sex life. We made some mutual promises to one another. His included a promise not to go back to it. After BD I asked him if he'd ever kept that promise even for a short time and he said no, and that it was unreasonable of me to expect that any guy would. So he's been lying to me about that for 11 years.

I hope it has been enlightening. I will say that it is fairly easy to hide and lie about. And it is also very easy to justify to ourselves (every guy does it, it's not harming anyone, it's way better than having an affair so it's actually a good thing, etc). From a recovering user, that is all crap. And so is the "it's unreasonable to ask any man not to" idea. I have been done with it for four months now and I feel the healthiest sexually I ever have in my adult life. I have no crazy urges anymore, I am craving affection and intimacy, not just physical pleasure like I did for 10 years. And that is with no one even in my house to hide it from. Just don't buy those ideas for a second.

But keep in mind that if he would change and truly stop, it has to start within himself. I have learned many new things about male/human sexuality, new strategies, new resources. All of that has been extremely helpful. But the primary driving factor for my change is the knowledge that porn helped destroy my marriage, and getting rid of porn forever is a must if I'm ever going to reconcile with WAW. The obvious difference between me and your H is that I want my M right now. So don't worry about this bridge until you get there.

I hear you about the holidays. I normally love them, Im sure I'll love them again in the future, but this year...bleh. Moving out of my house and into mom's basement the week before christmas isn't helping

[Maybell]

I told him I had plans for Christmas Eve that I preferred to keep.

Five hours later (unusual amount of delay for him), after I'd gone to bed, he sent me an email that said "Well at least you could tell me what the kids will be doing Christmas Eve... I think that's a reasonable thing to say. No need to be mysterious about it."

I'm thinking of saying "We will be at XXXX. I'm sorry you're annoyed. I have been significantly less mysterious than you."

But I don't need to be provocative. Would it be better just to say we'll be at XXXX?

I am having a hard time finding a place of meh with him. I'd like to get to meh. I'm tired of this dance.