Busting this Divorce - 90 Days NC #1

[25yearsmlc]

Thank you 25 for your post and very direct comments. I did use your "SO WHAT?" suggestion when my W texted "Reconsider having Christmas together?" I see it's just what I have to do here like everything else. I don't have to like it... just do it.

Ridiculous how I feel guilt like I abandoned and hurt my W after everything that's happened. But I do and I'm hurting myself very badly. So yes I've been hiding here this week... wanting to not be her LBH for a while b/c yes I can't handle her and her behavior right now. I didn't let myself do that being so sensitive to her contacting me.

She sent another text... "I am sorry I hurt you. More than you can know." I didn't respond... not even with a truth dart. I will next time.


I'm curious about this^^. WHY would you send her a "truth DART" (emphasis on the word "DART") MY point to you was to say "so what?" to YOURSELF.

She says she is sorry more than you can know, so you want to 1) mind read AND 2) give her a snotty retort.

WHY? Just detach. Let it go. There's a good chance she means it. Or did at the moment she said it. It changes nothing.

IF she presses you, then TELL her that. "W, you SAY these things about regretting your choices, but then you continue to make those same choices, so really, I'm at a loss as to what you expect or want me to say, b/c clearly, nothing I say can change your plans...."

AND then drop it. Do NOT wait as if you expect a response from her (Towards you, of course)...resist it and leave the second the words are out of your mouth. NOT rudely, but quickly..."Gotta go, I'll keep in touch", etc.

Make sense?


The couple times we looked at each other this week, her eyes were so wide and she looked at me so sad like she wanted something. Otherwise, we don't even say hello to each other. Our handoffs of S11 are at a distance. I'm creating that distance. So what.

HP....so you continue to read into where her eyes land...

buddy, you MUST Take her OFF your microscope, and stop obsessing about what her facial expressions and tone might mean, or eye contact or none, or the sighs and deep breaths, or tears or no tears and blah blah blah.

Seriously, just stop it. Use the tools the TED TALK videos have (and the speakers are authors who wrote books that elaborate on their approach!)

AND Please, please for your sanity's sake and your son's happiness AND for your future, GAL for real, more...okay?

I suggest you Stop examining & staring at your negative emotions and giving them so much power.

People with low self esteem are seen as needing more help from us, to meet their challenges.
But in reality it is from FACING & overcoming those challenges - that will lift their self esteem.

Struggling and overcoming challenges, are what teaches us to have confidence within. Working THROUGH The pain is how we learn that life CAN bring us joy and happiness, not avoiding pain.

I get the feeling that you are sort of navel gazing about the pain. "I"m still in a lot of pain and my son saw me crying (again) last night..."

Okay while there's nothing "wrong" with crying in front of him, you need to move on faster.

To paraphrase what Amy Cuddy says in her book and the TED Talks,

"Do Not wait for FEELINGS to arise & change a behavior,

INSTEAD -Behave in ways that change the feelings."


Moreover, Your urge to drink when you are sad/angry, is of great concern to me. I think when you self medicate with alcohol, you teach yourself NOT to work through the pain -- but to numb it.

Take that^^ in before blurting out a defensive reaction, okay? Just process it...

You seemed shocked & reeling that it feels SO uncomfortable to face this pain. You are wallowing in it now. Don't drink or numb or avoid OR wallow in the pain. Face it, COPE With it....overcome it.

Yes, I guess that^^ is a bit of a 2 x 4, but hey, there's a boy in your home watching you and so, if anyone needs to move along faster, it's you.

I'm still feeling a lot of pain... and my son saw me crying last night. We had a talk about how it's OK to cry and holding in your feelings only hurts more. He was going to call his mom when he saw me crying and I told him not to. Told him not to tell his mom anything about me.

I'm a bit torn on this, ^^ with all the emphasis on the PAIN of it all....

but I agree that him getting in the middle of your m, is a very bad idea.

Telling him NOT to say "anything" about you to his own mom, seems on its face, potentially detached. But I think we both know it's just the opposite.


He was so nice to me last night trying to help me. I ran out of alcohol the night before which was good as I was better yesterday. By the evening, though, I was hurting so badly I wanted a drink. Driving home from the grocery I was going to stop and pick up some beer. My son says, "you don't need beer to be happy dad." He told me to think of things that make me happy... the same thing I told him the first night in the condo. I didn't get the beer. Drank half of his root beer instead.

Hp, pardon me for blurting this out but since I'm the adult child of an alcoholic, I have to ask you if you are in a 12 step program or if you have a sponsor.

This^^ behavior is the behavior of someone who, at best, misuses alcohol. At worst, it's the behavior of an alcoholic, who relies on booze to TEMPORARILY escape pain.

But By numbing it, you avoid it and thusly, give it MORE power in your life... (and you are modeling God knows what, for your son about alcohol).

Champagne at a wedding, cheering a toast to the couple...see, THAT Is an acceptable, responsible & fun celebratory way to share in fellowship at a happy occasion. Champagne is appropriate there.

Feeling as if you want to cry and then wanting beer to drink, alone, or in a room away from your one child, is Not an appropriate choice to make. Do you get that?

Yesterday I stopped by the old house to get the HDTV for S11. She knew I was picking up the TV. Saw her vodka bottle out and nearly empty. Saw a notepad that she listed her monthly apartment and living expenses on. It will be very tight for her. I saw that W had a new book by the bed... where she leaves the book she is currently reading... called "Love Sense." It's a book about the science of love and how to keep or recapture it in struggling long term relationships.

I fought not to mind read but did buy the book myself.

Really, HP? You "fought" not to mind read --(well gee, that was a fast fight)

So then you BOUGHT the same book & are reading it now?? Geez...well since you are so into the mind reading, again....WHILE KNOWING that it makes you hope things and then get hurt more...

why not assume the book is about her r with OM? (Ouch??)

(Better yet, why not drop it?)


Read it last night. I saw our R described in that book... how it got to where we are and how it can recover from there with help. There was a story in it about a couple where the W had and A and fell in love with the AP and wanted out of the M. The couple had similar lack of connection issues to me and W. The story showed how, with emotion focused therapy (EFT) help and time and patience, the couple recaptured passion and saved their M.

Hope has been a very dangerous thing with me in this sitch. Extremely painful. The book was very educational and a little comforting for me and I'll leave it at that.

S11 is away this weekend until Sunday evening with W. I have plans to work... to go to the gym... to get the car fixed.

I was very sad this morning, though. Cried again and felt pissed about it after. I wasn't going to post for a few days... but I find the sharing and support helps me feel stronger so here I am again.

Good thing, I find it easer to recover from sadness. Remembering to be positive, confident, and emotionally stable like jCred said in is post.

Being consistently emotionally stable is still an issue... so I do have my first IC appointment for Monday. Considering antidepressants.

I did look at the TED talks 25. I just have to remember to use the tools when needed.

Why not ASSUME you need to use them on a daily basis? I'm totally serious. These are LIFE SKILLS not just for crises...but for every single day of your life.

Trust me (and MANY MANY others) when I say that What you resist, persists and where your head goes, your heart will follow (if you let it).

[/b]

I do make myself smile and use positive body language... like this morning when I walked past W's car after she picked up S11. (We didn't speak again this morning.) I admit I want to reach out to her and ask her what she's thinking.

But yes, I let her take up WAY too much space in my head/heart. She threw that away.

My head/heart have better things to do.

[JCred]

HP,
I feel for ya man, I really do, but I am going to tell you the reality again..

Woman ARE attracted to EMOTIONALLY STRONG.... confident men who are going somewhere with their life.....

They are NOT attracted to emotionally weak men.
I think you need to find a good strong male friend. I really do.... A male that you can confide MALE things with......

You are looking like the weak one here. EVEN YOUR SON sees it.
Your wife can't get her feelings back for you while she is feeling pity for you. I'm sorry HP, but that's just the way it works with men and women.... Women are just more attracted to confident men who ARE EMOTIONALLY STRONG....

Please find a STRONG male friend that you can bounce men things off of....... No matter what people say about men crying, not much turns a woman off faster than a man who is weak emotionally when she rejects him. That's why pursuit and chasing and begging don't work. Crying is the same...

You really do need to come to grips with this. I understand you are in pain, but you need to come to the place that you say NO MORE... I'm moving on...

THAT will be your key to gaining her attention and attraction back. Your son is more worried about YOU emotionally than her.. Think about that..... This isn't moving you closer to your goal. It is moving you AWAY from it. Your wife feels bad (pity) for you, but that isn't helping her to feel loss or love for you while you are in this state. It's one thing for you wife see you cry about something like the death of a loved one, but it is something entirely different with what has just transpired. She really needs to feel and see that not only are you happy, but maybe even HAPPIER without her. Emotional strength.. "I CAN HANDLE WHATEVER LIFE THROWS MY WAY." Most women want an emotionally strong man THEY can lean on in tough times. How can she lean on you when she feels you are on the verge of losing it?

Find a good strong male friend that you can confide in.. One who you can call daily, or hourly if needed that can help you get back on track so that your wife sees emotional strength coming from you at all times....

[HPoirot]

Day #7...

Thank you Wonka and 25. I did speak to my son Wonka about sharing news about me with his mom. Even so, simply doing and being my best around him solves the problem. I can't ask him to do work I must do.

A lot of hard truth 25 thank you. I poured my bottle of rum down the sink. Bought my own book, "The Success Principles" by Jack Canfield and am now reading it and doing what it says.

Quote from the book about taking 100% responsibility for your life... "If you realize that you have created your current conditions, then you can uncreate them and re-create them at will. Do you understand that?"

I will learn to understand and act on that everyday when I'm not working, being a father, or GALing.

Back to work.

Event + Response = OUTCOME

I control the response.

Onward.

[Vanilla]

HP

We all slip, we are human after all. Forgive yourself, the GAL enthusiast says go GAL. Good clean non alcohol related GAL.

If you look at my sitch, you will see the damage that alcohol can do. Don't go there, your S needs you too much. It's a real misery road all round.

Find an alternate outlet for your anger, do something else. mozzas 7 minute workout perhaps to change your state of mind. (Thanks Mozza, I resourced that and downloaded it to my iPad., it's now part of my Heath and sassy campaign that I have agreed with gg)

It's going to be all right in the end and if it's not alright it's not the end.

Thanks for the lovely words.

Gentleness
Vanilla

[HPoirot]

Was just reading very insightful words from Vanilla on another thread. Words from the point of view of the WAW. I've known almost since the beginning of this sitch the importance of accepting my W as she is right now... not to try to change her or challenge her... to somehow validate her as she is without judgement. To validate her feelings and put mine on the shelf.

She texts me to say she bought S11 some presents and, if I wanted them to be from me, I can pay her back. I say "No thank you I'll buy him my own gifts."

Then she texts me "And the computer?" She knows I'll buy him a new computer as I've told her a number of times already.

Then she sends me a text... "HP we have to talk. We can't do this in front of S11. We must communicate. Please."

I'm remembering all the amazing advice I've received in just this thread alone about how to respond to her. Just text "What is it?" and leave it to her to explain herself. Don't make a big deal about it. Don't be surprised or outraged or otherwise moved by anything she says or does. Everyone here has said it again and again she's just wants to regain control and in her mind make me the bad bitter one b/c I won't play happy family with my wayward W. Just accept it and keep moving.

Don't let my guilt or mind reading get in my way. It will be like this many days with W for a while. I'm Clint Eastwood. Dirty Harry. No problem. No need to ignore her. Dispassionately listen, translate the real request, dismiss the rest, be nice and professional in my response, move on.

Nothing else to do.

I'm going to go for a walk in the woods.

[zew]

I'm remembering all the amazing advice I've received in just this thread alone about how to respond to her. Just text "What is it?" and leave it to her to explain herself. Don't make a big deal about it. Don't be surprised or outraged or otherwise moved by anything she says or does. Everyone here has said it again and again she's just wants to regain control and in her mind make me the bad bitter one b/c I won't play happy family with my wayward W. Just accept it and keep moving.

You've got it!

[HPoirot]

Journaling...

This being in pain and alone without drinking is tough. I spent today by myself. Got the car starter replaced... read my success book... researched some concrete ways to meet my goals. Took 2 long walks today from the car repair garage and back. Ate pretty well... looks like I put on some weight. Didn't go to the gym but I will tomorrow. Took 2 long naps. Sitting still brings on the pain... so I don't sit still too long.

Decided my main goal in therapy starting Monday will be to detach from my W and the outcome of this sitch. Thought about 25 saying my self-esteem is low and I agree it is so I'll look for help there too. Noted how much I wanted a drink today... that and/or a woman's company. Walking around the mall today to buy some workout pants, noticed my desire to approach women. Found I'll need to focus on living independently and getting my happiness and worth from within in therapy too.

My OW from 5 years ago called me again today. She was on her morning walk with her dogs near the water on a warm beautiful day where she was. She described her view to me. We grew up together going to the beach in the warm sun. She knows how much I like that.

We had a nice talk about how I'm feeling, what I'm going through, and how she's working to make happiness for herself. We talked about how I have no close friendships here and how that happened. How we both have felt in our lives we didn't have a real home while living in cold weather. It's why she moved her family to the sun... to be happier. It seems to work for her... that and she keeps busy on her own projects. I talked about how I feel now trapped in this city where it's cold and how I never made the effort to really live here... to find inspiring things that I loved to do here. I know that's a big part of why I'm in this sitch now. I told her about my goals to find happiness here.

She was very supportive and it was the best part of my day that she called. I'm aware I can't depend on her as I have to finally be really self-sufficient and quickly. And she is not my Plan B. She's decided to make her M work like I would prefer my W to do. I have a chance and the motivation to really become the person I want to be.

Just keep going.

[Pink17]

Hi HP,

Sorry, have been busy with end of the year stuff and my own mess in my sitch.

Well, I really like what Wonka offered you. I think it's time for your W to have some respect regarding you and all you are going through.

If she is not mentally ill, then she knows very well she has hurt you. That it is difficult for you because you have been cheated, betrayed. She knows you acknowledge the wrongs you have done in you R/M and all the times you hurt her. She knows you choose to work on your M and avoid the D. And yet she wants to pursue it anyway.

So, I really believe it's time to use Wonka's words and set it straight with her. You do not need to yell, say bad words and offend her. You just need to set it the way she will not toy with you anymore.

She is doing all the wrong things here because she is very confused and does not want to make any mistake, but she also need to understand that her choices are hurting other people and she needs at least to have some respect and get out of the picture.

You are doing good, because it is a very hard time in your life. I have kids, and I know how hard it is to be happy for them, uplifting around them, do activities you are not in a mood. But, again like Wonka said, if you try or even fake it at first then it just become.

About the alcohol, I never had trouble with it, but found myself feeling good every time I would drink. Last time I have one too many I end up messing things around. End up in be with my H and it was not very good for either. So now, no more alcohol, it is the enemy, it will make you feel better and then make you feel 100 times worse, beside we have kids. Not a good combination if we want to be responsible.

I got some help with antidepressant at the beginning of my sitch, it's Zolof 25mg for me, I really do not need anything stronger. But it helps to take that agonizing edge of pain. I felt and feel much better and it helps in every aspect of my life.

I can work, eat better, smile and think a little better. The whole mess with the D is still there, I also feel sad, angry, happy, hopeful, discouraged, I am able to feel it all, it's just that I am not shaking and going in a million direction at the same time.

Your IC probably told you that it is perfectly normal to love someone and feel angry with that person. Grief has many stages and anger is one of them. Respect yourself and let yourself live and feel all the steps of grief. It is not an easy task but it is manageable if you know what is happening to you.

Just one idea? For many years I made Gingerbread XMas house with my kids, they loved and they still do, even now they are older, but they enjoy putting it together and making a mess.

We also play games at the kitchen table, it's amazing how you can get into it and basically forget you are sad.

There are also some online games that we get on our phones so we can do it anywhere, anytime. It's some questions, silly and stupid questions like what would you do put a bucket on your hand for the rest of your life or on your foot for the rest of your life. Or would you smell the dog pup or leak the dog trow up? We laugh for over an hour with these stupid things.

It's fun, it's light, it's boy oriented, it's clean jokes, but we create a lovely bond with good mood.

HP, I hope I could give you some ideas to get by for awhile, I have been in the same boat, it just does not have any other way right now. We need to take good care after ourselves and get through it with dignity and respect.

Hope things will get better for you (and for me too)
Hang in there, it's the Holidays!

Pink

[mandown]

HP, skimmed through your sitch. I am sorry you are going through all this.

I am going to join in on your venture with you. It's a little different with me though, W lives upstairs.

Test of our strength!

[Wonka]

HP,

I want to really commend you for pouring out the whiskey from the bottle. It is the BEST decision we've ever made in our lives.

Yes, that's right. You heard me: I did the exact same thing you did. For starters, I have always been a teetotaler with one or two tots of my lovely amaretto per year. In the first week after Ms. Wonka left, I came very perilously close to drinking a large amount of the amaretto. It took every ounce of my willpower to pour out the whole bottle in my kitchen sink. Whew! As you can see, I was in so much pain that I just wanted it all to go away.

A word to the wise about "wanting a woman"...please be very self-aware of this slippery slope. In my experience, I fought off the urge for a few years because I recognized that those feelings came from a place of 'neediness' instead of being self-assured and ready to give/share with another person. I'm glad of my personal choice to refrain from grabbing the next woman because it would have put me in a thought position.

By the way, I liked how you responded to W's text with "what is it?" query. Nicely done!