Angry WAH blames me for everything.......

[labug]

Wow you are so early in this. Slow down, take some deep breaths. Let the dust settle. You're very much in fix-it mode.

I believe him to be manipulative right now. Me, his parents, possibly his IC. I would agree that he may not realize what he's doing, but he started handling this the way he always has. Avoid avoid avoid. Now it's too big to avoid. I believe he's waiting on someone (other than me) to tell him what to do. Because he's never had to handle bailing himself out of a crisis. Someone's always done it for him. Which is why I think (partially) he's stalled where he is.

Lots of mind-reading here. We all manipulate, some more than others. He may be waiting for help or not. But the answer for you is the same.

Let him live his life.

And if he has some issues like Bipolar Disorder or Personality Disorder, then he won't see anything the same way you see it. It would be good to determined that he has or not those kind of mental issues. It makes a world of difference if he is diagnosed and takes the correct medication. He becomes just normal again. The fact that he did start acting this way after his family reunion just show that it could be the trigger for all meltdown.

I don't think he has bipolar, and neither does his IC, my IC, or our doctor. I (along wither everyone else) think he's bottled up way too much [censored] for 31 years, and it finally came spewing out. He's always controlled his anger, controlled his emotions, and I think something "broke" for a lack of better words and it's all coming out. I read something that said people who bottle up their feelings and anger finally reach a trigger point and everything comes out -- and when it does it's usually explosive, destructive and out of left field. I can attest to that. That's been the last three months at my house.

What significance does this have for you and your actions? I'm not saying it doesn't but try to put this in perspective.

I think he wants someone to tell him what to do. Because he has no idea what's going on, because he's never dug deep within himself and identified the issues that he has. Does he want to be less moody and volatile - absolutely. This isn't a walk in the park for him. But if I tried to reframe it from his perspective, I would imagine he's looking for himself in all of this. Which is why the R is not a priority to him. And realistically, I know it shouldn't be. But I don't relish in the thought of him finding himself at the expense of me or our M.

Again, a lot of mind-reading.

But about your last sentance, really?

Think about that from a non-emotional perspective. You love this man, right?

I don't think he wants to be anywhere near me, personally. Just from his actions and his words. But I'm in the middle of the trees and can't see the forest. I do think that I represent his failures and his perceived inferiority.

H has low self esteem from his childhood and dealing with his alcoholic M. I think he never had a chance to develop his self esteem because he was too busy dealing with the volatile nature of his mother, the house he grew up with, being a teen with the weird mother, etc. He's often articulated to me that he wishes that he could be like me, from a confidence standpoint as well as a conflict standpoint. He sees me as someone who has their life together, who doesn't face trials and tribulations (ha!) or if I have conflict, I generally take it head on and solve it. I believe his comparison of himself, to me, has made him feel worse about himself and our relationship. And I've tried to tell him, he can't compare himself to me - it doesn't work that way. But it's just fuel to the fire at this point.

He yelled at me, early on in all this, in a fit of rage, that he never had a voice in our relationship. This is his perception, but it's far from my truth. Any big decisions, I always talked with him about. Every time he has said no, I've respected his wishes. I always sought his input with everything from my own personal matters to our relationship matters. But what I think he's saying, is that he wanted to say more and didn't feel comfortable saying it -- because he was trying to please me. Or be a good husband. Which, I never asked for. He assumed that he had to modify his behavior to make ME happy. He's had a voice, all along, he just hasn't used it or realized until it exploded in his face that he needed to articulate more. For himself, not for me.

I know you're trying to make sense of all this but does it move YOU forward.

You want to fix him, you have the answers, this or that is what you would do...

Let it go. Hand his life back to him and let him solve his problems. He deserves that.

I'm going to sound like a bratty teenager. But I've told him this. He doesn't care. Or, I should rephrase this to say -- I've told him this, but I don't know how much of the information other than I was to work on the M he is retaining.

Why did you have to tell him anything? Would you agree that ultimatums rarely ever work in the long run?

I'm already getting time and space. He's not in any place where he wants to hear anything, if that makes sense? If I tell him that I'm going to give myself time to work on my own issues, he'll just say "ok" and not initiate conversation -- which is pretty much where we're at right now.

And that's bad because...?

Again, I'm sounding like a bratty teenager -- but he isn't thinking of anyone or anything other than himself right now. Those are his own words. He knows that I'm struggling. But, it's not really making a (from my perception) impact on him. I get "I know this is hard on you, I'm sorry." And that's it.

So does he need to work on himself? From your description it sure sounds like it.

What kid of impact do you want to have on him?

Exactly! And really? Why would he face his issues? What's his motivation? His parents are paying for him to live in a hotel, buying food, paying for his therapy. I have access to his pay check and I'm making sure that the mortgage and bills at our house get paid. I'm making sure the animals are taken care of. All he has to do is go to work and go to his hotel room and EVERYONE ELSE takes care of the messes behind him. While I realize this is not easy for him at all and he's in a dark place --- but, he's got a pretty sweet deal. All of the responsibilities are being handled by someone else, he isn't getting pressure from anyone, he doesn't have to do anything except go to work. And even that's optional. He could quit his job right now and his parents would continue to fund this.

Depression is never a sweet deal.

You can't control his parents. I have a son with metal illness and I'm sure a lot of people would have input in to how I'm not doing my job as a parent right.

All I can say is let it go. Allow him to face whatever he needs to face without pushing from you.

don't know how to show him the fragile side? He's been with me 10 years. He's seen my cry and wracked with insecurities. He's seen me struggle with issues, he's seen me absolutely gutted by all of this. And honestly, I don't know if he would believe anything, because he has built me up as the big bad wolf in his head. And when I've tried to show humbleness, or fragility, or how I'm really feeling -- it's met with apathy or ambivalence. And then I get angry. And then we start the cycle round and round again.

Who do you want to be Calibri? Who are you? That's who you need to let him see, not someone created to get hi back but who you really are. Your authentic self.

I know I need to STFU. And for the most part I've been doing it. But there's only so much that I can sit and bite my tongue before the blood starts pouring out of my mouth and I have to spit it out.

Why is that?

I've said this in my response to TLEE -- but with communication -- it's now his rules, his way. And I don't know the rules because they change, daily, right along with his moods. He doesn't want to talk if he's tired. Or if he's in a bad mood. Or if he's not feeling it. Or if the sky is blue. He has boundaries in his head but he doesn't articulate them, but gets mad when I step over them -- not on purpose, but rather because I'm not aware of them.

Make your own rules. No contact. Get your act together, decide who you want to be in all this and then be it.

Drop your need to control. To be right (you sound like your mothering him. that's me being very honest)

You have the choice to get off the roller coaster. Don't let fear control you.

[Calibri]

Wow you are so early in this. Slow down, take some deep breaths. Let the dust settle. You're very much in fix-it mode.

I agree. I want to fix it. But I know that I can't fix it. But I still want to try and fix it anyway.

What significance does this have for you and your actions? I'm not saying it doesn't but try to put this in perspective.

Loaded question -- I think. If he has bipolar, I don't know. Having lived with a bipolar parent, it's not a path that I'm sure I want to go down, which is hypocritical because I have just as equal of a chance of trigger bipolar. But that's what it is. But I don't think he's bipolar. The anger I can deal with, if the tools are there and he's willing to work on it.

Again, a lot of mind-reading.

But about your last sentance, really?

Think about that from a non-emotional perspective. You love this man, right?

Yes, I love this man. Yes, I want what's best for him. But I would like for it to be with me. The frustrating thing is, right now, there are more issues in play than just me. There's issues from his childhood. There's issues from past employers. I'm the one getting the brunt of everything right now. I don't know when/if he would ever confront the issue with his parents. He can't confront issues with past employers, because well, he doesn't work for them. So, it's just me and our relationship that's under the microscope.

I know you're trying to make sense of all this but does it move YOU forward.

You want to fix him, you have the answers, this or that is what you would do...

Let it go. Hand his life back to him and let him solve his problems. He deserves that.

No, it doesn't move me forward. It leaves me stuck going round and round asking why. Do I want to fix him, believe it or not, no. I would like for him to solve his problems. But it frustrates me to see plainly what he cannot. But like you said, let it go. It's his problem.

Why did you have to tell him anything? Would you agree that ultimatums rarely ever work in the long run?

Because I felt like he should know........? And no, ultimatums usually don't work. Ever.

And that's bad because...?

Point taken.

So does he need to work on himself? From your description it sure sounds like it.

Yes, he absolutely does need to work on himself. Otherwise it'll be the same story down the road for him, in his life.

What kid of impact do you want to have on him?

A positive one. One that changes his life, but in a good way. One that makes him want to stay (if that's whats best for us both).

You can't control his parents. I have a son with metal illness and I'm sure a lot of people would have input in to how I'm not doing my job as a parent right.

All I can say is let it go. Allow him to face whatever he needs to face without pushing from you.

No, the depression isn't at all a sweet deal, and that's not at all what I'm referencing, although I can see how it's inferred by the way I worded it. What I'm saying is that, he's not having to face responsibilities in life right now, because both his parents and I have shouldered the burden so that he doesn't have to. It's frustrating, that's all, being left behind to deal with it all, but it's the same for every left behind spouse, I imagine.

And I know I can't change or control his parents. I've known that for a LONG TIME. There's just alot of family dynamic there that contributes to this and it's.....frustrating. And hard.

Who do you want to be Calibri? Who are you? That's who you need to let him see, not someone created to get hi back but who you really are. Your authentic self.

Ok, this is where I struggle. I have been (at least I believe) my authentic self the entire time of our relationship. Have I been my best authentic self? No, absolutely not. The last two years have been tough on me and therefore I've been less pleasant to deal with. I don't want to change the core of who I am. But I would like to be more compassionate, less hard, and less controlling. And, I have to admit, I'm having an issue with the control thing, although I realize that I have control tendencies. I never thought that I was controlling in our R, because it wasn't something that I was purposely doing. I never woke up and thought, "hey, I'm going to control H by doing this, that and the other." I'm having a really hard time accepting this and reflecting upon it. And trying to figure out how to change it.

Why is that?

I've always spoken my mind about things. It's a habit that's tough to break. That's why it's hard for me to bite my tongue. Unfortunately, there's only so many times I can get railed on before I get fed up with it. Which is probably something else I can work on.

Make your own rules. No contact. Get your act together, decide who you want to be in all this and then be it.

Drop your need to control. To be right (you sound like your mothering him. that's me being very honest)

You have the choice to get off the roller coaster. Don't let fear control you.

I absolutely feel like a mother some days. I don't like that role, yet I keep stepping into it, because of old patterns that come from both of us. That's something that HAS to stop. He felt like a caretaker, well, I felt like his mother. So, we both have roles that we didn't like.

Thank you labug for the perspective and the questions and observations. It's helping me with my journey. I appreciate your time and insight.

[Calibri]

Labug,

I've been thinking about your post to me. I also went back and read some of your sitch. Very enlightening stuff.

And I came across this while doing some reading on control:

"Do you really want to deprive those you love of the benefits of learning from their own experiences? They too have a need to write their own story."

A lot of things clicked - today. Thank you for setting me on the path of where I need to focus.

[labug]

Let's face reality and look at what you actually can control.

Loaded question -- I think. If he has bipolar, I don't know. Having lived with a bipolar parent, it's not a path that I'm sure I want to go down, which is hypocritical because I have just as equal of a chance of trigger bipolar. But that's what it is. But I don't think he's bipolar. The anger I can deal with, if the tools are there and he's willing to work on it.

Why is it loaded?

Do you have a crystal ball? Are you qualified to diagnose your H? If not, let it all go. You don't need the anxiety of worrying about what ifs right now. You're borrowing trouble, complicating your life.

His mental health is his to deal with...and this is the hard part, or not.

Yes, I love this man. Yes, I want what's best for him. But I would like for it to be with me. The frustrating thing is, right now, there are more issues in play than just me. There's issues from his childhood. There's issues from past employers. I'm the one getting the brunt of everything right now. I don't know when/if he would ever confront the issue with his parents. He can't confront issues with past employers, because well, he doesn't work for them. So, it's just me and our relationship that's under the microscope.
/quote]
So love him enough to give him what he wants right now.
His issues aren't your issues. When your mind starts revving up with "what he should do" stop that. Do you meditate or do yoga? Might be helpful. Focus on the things you can control, GAL, reading helpful things, exercise, funny movies, volunteer.

Lovingly detach.

[quote]No, it doesn't move me forward. It leaves me stuck going round and round asking why. Do I want to fix him, believe it or not, no. I would like for him to solve his problems. But it frustrates me to see plainly what he cannot. But like you said, let it go. It's his problem.

The bolded sentence, you don't know that to be true, he's just not doing it on your timeline. Give him a chance.

Think of this, every time you interfere in his process, he has to go back to square one. He can blame you for interfering, so again he's focusing on you as the culprit. If you're not around, he doesn't have you as a scapegoat.

No, the depression isn't at all a sweet deal, and that's not at all what I'm referencing, although I can see how it's inferred by the way I worded it. What I'm saying is that, he's not having to face responsibilities in life right now, because both his parents and I have shouldered the burden so that he doesn't have to. It's frustrating, that's all, being left behind to deal with it all, but it's the same for every left behind spouse, I imagine.

And I know I can't change or control his parents. I've known that for a LONG TIME. There's just alot of family dynamic there that contributes to this and it's.....frustrating. And hard.

So stop shouldering the burden. Give it to who it truly belongs to. Face the reality of the situation.

I have to use these test question often, I learned them in AlAnon, "Whose problem is it?" and "Did anyone ask me for help?"

Doing these little practices is how you learn to let go.

It's only frustrating as long as you remain enmeshed in it.

And, I have to admit, I'm having an issue with the control thing, although I realize that I have control tendencies. I never thought that I was controlling in our R, because it wasn't something that I was purposely doing. I never woke up and thought, "hey, I'm going to control H by doing this, that and the other." I'm having a really hard time accepting this and reflecting upon it. And trying to figure out how to change it.

None of us really want to be controlling, it's a mechanism we've learned to make our world seem safer. Why do you think you're controlling, where does that come from?

Use this time you have away from him to work on you. Sometimes we stay tied up in other people's problems to keep the focus off us. Let go of that and use this time as a gift to work on and heal you. Look your demons squarely in the eye, just like you'd wish your H to do.

I've always spoken my mind about things. It's a habit that's tough to break. That's why it's hard for me to bite my tongue. Unfortunately, there's only so many times I can get railed on before I get fed up with it. Which is probably something else I can work on.

Yep!
Speaking your mind is one thing, being hypercritical and opinionated and calling it speaking your mind is another.I had the same problem. As I said, look those demons in the eye. Have no fear.

You can do this, you just have to decide to start.

[labug]

Yes, I love this man. Yes, I want what's best for him. But I would like for it to be with me. The frustrating thing is, right now, there are more issues in play than just me. There's issues from his childhood. There's issues from past employers. I'm the one getting the brunt of everything right now. I don't know when/if he would ever confront the issue with his parents. He can't confront issues with past employers, because well, he doesn't work for them. So, it's just me and our relationship that's under the microscope.

So love him enough to give him what he wants right now.
His issues aren't your issues. When your mind starts revving up with "what he should do" stop that. Do you meditate or do yoga? Might be helpful. Focus on the things you can control, GAL, reading helpful things, exercise, funny movies, volunteer.

Lovingly detach.

No, it doesn't move me forward. It leaves me stuck going round and round asking why. Do I want to fix him, believe it or not, no. I would like for him to solve his problems. But it frustrates me to see plainly what he cannot. But like you said, let it go. It's his problem.

edited for clarity

[Calibri]

Why is it loaded?

Do you have a crystal ball? Are you qualified to diagnose your H? If not, let it all go. You don't need the anxiety of worrying about what ifs right now. You're borrowing trouble, complicating your life.

His mental health is his to deal with...and this is the hard part, or not.

It's a loaded questions for me, because I make it loaded. Having a dad with bipolar, and lots of family members with mental illness or depression - I see how destructive it is. I have this mindset that just because someone has problems, doesn't mean you give up on them. You help them, etc. It's a learned behavior from watching other family members interact with one another. But, I have a hang up about bipolar, just from having such a negative experience with it from my dad (who I learned to detach from years ago. Need to channel this). I didn't get to choose who my father was, but I did choose my spouse. And I don't know if I can live with someone who is bipolar - but that's neither here nor there, as you said. I doubt he is. And if he is, we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

It just makes me feel like a dick. Having hang ups about it.

So love him enough to give him what he wants right now.
His issues aren't your issues. When your mind starts revving up with "what he should do" stop that. Do you meditate or do yoga? Might be helpful. Focus on the things you can control, GAL, reading helpful things, exercise, funny movies, volunteer.

I'm trying. I need to do a better job. And you're right, his issues aren't my issues. He's starting to come out of the fog and starting to admit that alot of what he spewed at me when he left......wasn't true. He isn't ready to elaborate yet, but it's a small step and a (tiny) hopeful step that we might move in the right direction -- now that I'm not being blamed for EVERYTHING that's wrong in his life.

I don't like yoga. It irritates me because it doesn't go fast enough, and I can't relax and then I get irritated because I can't relax. Hi there control issues -- I'll own up to that right now. I've never tried meditation -- I don't know how to do it correctly, if that makes any sense?

Lovingly detach.

I realized the other day, that part of the reason I'm having trouble with detaching is I equate the detachment I have with my father (which is not loving at all, more business like) with the detachment I need to have with my H. Working on it.

The bolded sentence, you don't know that to be true, he's just not doing it on your timeline. Give him a chance.

Think of this, every time you interfere in his process, he has to go back to square one. He can blame you for interfering, so again he's focusing on you as the culprit. If you're not around, he doesn't have you as a scapegoat.

I wish I had seen this before today. We had it out. Cheese less tunnels = convos with my H right now. Today's convo probably set us back a few weeks. Hoooray. But you know what he said to me, "I know this is frustrating for you, and I'm sorry that I'm not as far along as you would like me to be." Point taken from both of you --- I'm STFU.

So stop shouldering the burden. Give it to who it truly belongs to. Face the reality of the situation.

I'm talking in terms of paying bills, taking care of the house, making sure our animals are taken care of. He's all "they're all animals, it's our house" when it comes to minor things. But when it comes time to figure out if there's an animal rooting around in the eves of the attic, or figuring out some behavioral issues with our animals, *crickets chirp*. I've had to shoulder the burden of taking care of everything in his absence. I can't put it back on him because he won't do it. But I get what you're saying.

I have to use these test question often, I learned them in AlAnon, "Whose problem is it?" and "Did anyone ask me for help?"

So I've learned that I'm a fixer. Regardless of if I want to or not. This is a learned behavior. I resent people for having to fix things, because 9 times out of 10, I'm feel people should be fixing their own problems. But, H has yet to ask me to fix anything right now. So, I'm going to stop trying to fix it. And stop resenting him because he's not willing to work on it. We both need to work on ourselves to even have an opportunity to "fix" our relationship.

Good points. Very good points.

None of us really want to be controlling, it's a mechanism we've learned to make our world seem safer. Why do you think you're controlling, where does that come from?

I know why I control things. It comes from my childhood. I've touched on it before, but I had a raw deal in my childhood. Along the way, the control is a defense mechanism to protect myself from being hurt - because I was hurt by so many people who should've protected me. I felt and do feel by controlling things in my life, that I can have a "say" in what happens to me, and I can prevent negative things from happening to me. (Life lesson learned -- you can't control anything but yourself.) I also have a fear that if H and I get divorced, that no one will love me. Because I'm a tough gal to love. I have crazy family members, I could go crazy too, I'm a smart ass, tough, stubborn, opinionated woman who wants what she wants. Add on to the fact that I don't like to cook. I don't view myself as a catch. Sure, I'll talk myself up, but deep down, I don't see how anyone else could love me, if my H couldn't/can't.

And that would be my issue. In a nut shell. I've challenged myself in my personal journal to come up with 10 things that I like about myself. One month in....I'm at two. That says ALOT. What, exactly, I'm still pondering. But it speaks volumes.

Yep!
Speaking your mind is one thing, being hypercritical and opinionated and calling it speaking your mind is another.I had the same problem. As I said, look those demons in the eye. Have no fear.

I am guilty, guilty, guilty of being hypercritical. That's something I'm actively working on. I identified that early on. I don't necessarily see being opinionated as a bad thing, but if my opinions are being used against someone, then I suppose that's where it can become problematic.

I do have fear. Fear in the sense that I don't want to be divorced. Fear in the sense that I don't want to lose my H. Fear that this won't work out and then what? I know, realistically, that getting a divorce isn't the end of my life. I know that I can do this without my H. I know that if we don't continue our lives together, that I had ten great years with him, with a lifetime of memories that I wouldn't trade for the world - and that will always stay with me. But I have fear, because I have something to lose. Does that make sense. I know I can't have fear, yet I seem to be paralyzed.

You can do this, you just have to decide to start.

I am. Today. As soon as I stop boohooing from writing my post.

Thank you. From the bottom of my heart. I needed this and I hope that you'll continue to whack me upside the head when I need it. Which may be alot.

[labug]

So it sounds like yoga is just what you need. Learn to slow your mind and thoughts.

[gan]

This is such great conversation! Calibri, I relate to your sitch a lot. I agree with Labug that yoga and mindfulness could be good for you. As for learning mindfulness, I use an app on my phone (Headspace). There are dozens of others but I found this one to be a great place to start.

[Calibri]

Hi ganb8te,

I just did my first headspace. And after I got over the initial wtf is this this is too new age for me, I actually relaxed. It almost put me to sleep. Much better relaxation naturally vs anxiety medicine.

Going to try it again tomorrow. Sure beat out hot yoga.

[gan]

He he. Glad to hear it! I ended up taking out a subscription I liked it so much.