Doing the limbo thing (thread 7)

[shodan]

I agree that my W has not reached rock bottom. She definitely is/was close a month ago, hence her change in attitude, actions and words. I am not sure what has kept my W from full annihilating the A. My IC and my DB coach have asked me to focus on the positive changes since June of this year. My W and I have come a long way.

I am going to raise this issue with our MC later this week. I hope that our MC can help bridge a path forward.

[theoden]

Shodan,

You can't force closeness or affection.

I dunno, pretend your Clint Eastwood -- cool, self-confident, in control. ;-) She either gets on the Shodan train or she doesn't. Either way, you'll be OK. I think she might be more attracted to that than someone who's whole world revolves around HER.

Don't hang on her every word or NEED her assurances and affection now. That's kind of weak and unattractive.

Talk to your counselor, ALONE, about how and when to address the elephant in the room (the affair she's denying).

If not Client Eastwood, some other character you admire who id strong, solid, centered and DANGEROUS.

Be the true Karaetka -- open-hearted, without malice, but not safe. Be like Aslan in Naria -- good but NOT SAFE.

-Theoden

[UpperCu]

^ I like this

Shodan - what were you like when you and Mrs. Sho first started dating? If you step into her brain what are the answers to these questions: How did she perceive you? What things about you and your life at that time attracted her to you?

There was obviously attraction there at some point. If you can revive those parts of yourself now, do you think she will take notice?

[shodan]

Thanks for the continued feedback and advice. My W was traveling earlier this week, so I limited my interactions with her. But she called/texted a bit and made me aware of her itinerary. When she got home, i was bit aloof. For example, I did not walk up to give her a kiss. I was just super positive and happy. She came to me to give me a kiss. The next day she again was pretty good keeping me updated on her day and had a glass of wine waiting for me when I got home. We hung out, talked and then ML.

net/net...she is being more transparent but not where i would like her to be. She did comment that she may not need to travel for another four weeks, which will be great for us.

I plan to raise the trust issue during our MC session tomorrow. I hope our MC can help us bridge this gap. Conversely, I can continue down this path of GAL/being confident and hope that eventually she comes clean/is more transparent.

How was I when we first met...I was confident, strong, a bit arrogant but also showed a sweet and sensitive side. I am trying to be that now, which I am doing with some success. How does my W perceive m? Well she will tell me when I look cute/hot (to use her words), when I smell nice, when I do something that she likes, when I am funny, when she feels lucky to be married to me (her words again), etc.

[indigo1]

Sho, I have pretty much followed your situation from the very beginning. I don't post advice very often anywhere on these boards. I can honestly say that from the very start I had a feeling you would get another shot with your W. I strongly feel that getting to full transparency with your W is a must. Mostly for your sake. That was a deal breaker for me and I know that things would have never worked between W and I without it.

Its not the going through her stuff, its knowing that its open for me to look at if I wanted to. The trust factor is very important during this phase, without it I don't see you getting past this point. Where you are in this long fight right now was by far the hardest point for me when I was in your shoes. Its so easy to have those thoughts creep into your head causing you to act in a way that is harmful to getting where you need to be.

If she really is dedicated to giving your M a shot, full transparency should not be too much to ask. The way I see it, if she truly is remorseful, it should have been offered up by HER to help fix this.

[Starsky309]

I strongly feel that getting to full transparency with your W is a must. Mostly for your sake. That was a deal breaker for me and I know that things would have never worked between W and I without it.

Its not the going through her stuff, its knowing that its open for me to look at if I wanted to. The trust factor is very important during this phase, without it I don't see you getting past this point. Where you are in this long fight right now was by far the hardest point for me when I was in your shoes. Its so easy to have those thoughts creep into your head causing you to act in a way that is harmful to getting where you need to be.

If she really is dedicated to giving your M a shot, full transparency should not be too much to ask. The way I see it, if she truly is remorseful, it should have been offered up by HER to help fix this.

BINGO.


Starsky

[shodan]

Indigo/Starsky...thank you for your feedback.

We went to MC today and very quickly got into the trust issues. I played a good middle ground, validating my W's feelings and everything that she has said to date and said during the session. The MC said we need to figure out the trust issue or our M will not survive. The MC gave me a lot of time to tell my W how hurt I was by her actions, why I feel the way that I do and why I need to know (at a minimum) that things are over with the OM.

My W swore that things were done with him and cried and apologized for hurting me. She then tried to explain why she has struggled with doing the transparency stuff. In her words, it has nothing to do with the OM. She is committed to our M and wants it to work. But she has been struggling for years with my control issues. Note, she told me about these issues this past summer and most were unknown to me but I have been working on them since. A lot of her issues also are her own issues, meaning she never voiced her opinion about issues but then would hold it against me.

I know you will say that this is the broken record of all WAWs. But I could sense today we made a small break through.

The MC also explained to my W what I am going through. Specifically, that the trauma that I (and many of you) went through has caused me to have PTSD. One minute I am fine, the next minute I am in pain, sad, emotional, etc. I think this may have been the first time that my W heard from someone about how the LBS feels. My W has not read a single article or book on this (not her style). So until now, I think she still has focused on her feelings, while recognizing my feelings. After the session, she had a much better sense for my needs and of my feelings.

Thanks again to everyone for the help.

[HPoirot]

Glad for your breakthrough with your W shodan. Did she agree to transparency though?

[theoden]

Shodan,

Glad to hear it.

I think keeping the discussions about your marriage to the "safe" zone of your counselors office will help.

I suggest you see you counselor alone to reveal your concerns, mostly that your wife is denying she had an affair (emotional AND physical). Most marriage counselors will have 1-on-1 's occasionally with each spouse.

--Theoden

[shodan]

After the MC session and a talk we had later that night, I finally believed her that things are done with the OM. She always expressed extreme remorse to me. I thanked her for that and I said that she really has not said it like that before. She was shocked and said "of course I am so sorry for what I did. I feel awful that I hurt you like this. How can you not know that?" I told her that she never really says it to me. I told her that I cannot read her mind.

But, she has not offered full transparency. She does tell me where she is going and checks in more often but we are not at full transparency (namely code to her phone). We talked about it with the MC. My W is harboring extreme issues with my controlling behavior. Frankly, I think a lot of this was in her head and something that she has built up over time. I am not saying that I was perfect but the examples that she gives me of things that I did to control her are total news to me. So for her, having her own phone to which I don't have a code, etc. is a way of pushing back against her control issues. The MC tried to help her see my view, which my W did. But, she also said that she cannot live like a prisoner.

Here is where my W is (based on things that she has said to me):
- she logically wants our M to work
- she emotionally wants our M to work but struggles with her feelings
- she knows that am a good becoming great husband (she has said this to me)
- she loves me
- there is a physical attraction...this past week, for example, she initiated sex with me. She continues to say that sex was never our issue.

so the 2x4s are that she still feels entitled and has not hit rock bottom yet since she will not offer transparency. My assumption is people will say that I need to back off.

The ironic thing is that my "pain" in my chest is worse now than it was when we were DBing. I was detaching from her and trying to get to a point where I did not care what she did. I was GALing more and was in a better emotional spot. Now, we are together, and seemingly very happy. She says nice things to me (etc. tells me I look sexy/hot, tells me that I smell nice, tells me that I am perfect the way that I am, etc.), buys me things, we spend time together, we ML, etc, and yet I feel like my heart is broken even worse. I don't know if the pain is caused by the lack of full transparency OR the A.