Life 2.0 Pt 3

[MCS]

I think you probably are letting out that resentment, it seems to be common trait of reconciliation. I think it's a lot like the downer after an adrenalin rush. You've been 'going through the BD' motions over the last couple months. Now that your guard is letting down and you are getting more comfortable with W, some doubt is coming into play. If you are comfortable at some point in where you guys are in reconciliation, it may be good to talk about some of your feelings with her or with MC. Don't tuck them away, as that's the worst thing to do, they just will fester.

[nit84]

Rzr,

That is awesome that your W is noticing your changes and more importantly slowly regaining her faith that they will stick.

My W has also noticed my changes but unfortunately is not at the moment regaining her faith.

She was upset every time SHE brought up my changes and spewed about how I was trying to be better than everyone and I was throwing it all in her face. I tried to validate but to no avail.

Then she decided it was time for her to move out and now she doesn't see that I am still changing and becoming that man or even better than that man she M. That is the frustrating part. The WAS removes themselves from a situation that they think is toxic when in reality it is getting better. In their minds they have to leave to keep justifying their unwillingness to try.

All of this is their choice of course but it still stinks.

[NH115]

Dispatches from the roller coaster

Things were fine for a few days, we had a great time over New Years, lots of quality time and even ML a few times. I know things weren't back on track but they were going in the right direction

Yesterday, she walked in and saw me lying on the bed with my headphones in, catching up on Star Trek on my iPad (There. I'm out of the closet). And she went south. Total trigger, said she felt like we were backsliding into our "old, bad" marriage where I put on headphones and tuned her out. Of course, I quickly pointed out the interminable hours she spends editing photos and being on Facebook.

She had me afraid to pick up a book, or go to church, or even watch a damn TV show on Amazon because they were "triggers" for her! They reminded her of my family and that made her think we were backsliding.

She says she feels sad all the time, misses him, she feels lost and lonely all the time. I naturally asked her what was up in the last few days then, if that's the way she felt. She said that wasn't how she felt all the time, just then, and the last few days was her trying to put all her effort into our marriage, like we're supposed to. It's like she knows that emotions are transitory, but she can't see past that in the moment. If she feels sad at some point, then she's sad all the time. But I guess the last few days didn't really matter, because they'll never compare to his fantasy. She basically wants to feel in love with me like when we were first together and dating. That's her vision of success.

I have no earthly clue about how to recreate that after being together 21 years. By the requirements she's putting on us, there's no way we'll succeed. I'll never measure up to his fantasy. Of course that's how she feels about OM, because there's no real life to get in the way. She doesn't get that she'd probably be out of love with him (by that definition) in a year or so. If that's truly what she expects out of a relationship, then she's going to fail with every man she's ever with.

I know it looks on here like I'm still obsessed with OM. I guess that's because I post after W and I have a bad day, and OM is all.she.wants.to.talk.about.

Oh, and the things "we" did to let our marriage go. That is, when she's not pointing out my myriad flaws and mistakes. Because, as we all know, if I had been a better husband, she wouldn't have had an A.

I AM SO SICK OF HER MANIPULATIVE BS!!!!!!!!

WHY THE HELL AM I FIGHTING FOR THIS WOMAN!!!!!!

Dammit, I did it again. I knew that things weren't back the way they should be, but I allowed myself to get complacent. I am so gullible when it comes to her.

Just when I thought I was out, she pulls me back in.

Back to detachment. I want my life back.

[sandi2]

Yesterday, she walked in and saw me lying on the bed with my headphones in, catching up on Star Trek on my iPad (There. I'm out of the closet). And she went south. Total trigger, said she felt like we were backsliding into our "old, bad" marriage where I put on headphones and tuned her out. Of course, I quickly pointed out the interminable hours she spends editing photos and being on Facebook.

IMO, this was the time to validate her, instead of getting out your score board. I am sure you must have triggers also. Perhaps choose a good time you can talk to her. Ask her if the two of you can figure out a solution.

She had me afraid to pick up a book, or go to church, or even watch a damn TV show on Amazon because they were "triggers" for her! They reminded her of my family and that made her think we were backsliding.

How on earth does going to church or reading a book remind her of your family?

She says she feels sad all the time, misses him, she feels lost and lonely all the time. I naturally asked her what was up in the last few days then, if that's the way she felt. She said that wasn't how she felt all the time, just then, and the last few days was her trying to put all her effort into our marriage, like we're supposed to. It's like she knows that emotions are transitory, but she can't see past that in the moment. If she feels sad at some point, then she's sad all the time. But I guess the last few days didn't really matter, because they'll never compare to his fantasy. She basically wants to feel in love with me like when we were first together and dating. That's her vision of success.

This is to be expected when a WAS comes back. The sadness, restlessness and depression is there companion until they get through the withdrawal. Are you encouraging her and valadating her? When she is putting forth the effort in the MR......recognize it and give her some acknowledgement for it.

She basically wants to feel in love with me like when we were first together and dating. That's her vision of success.

Well sure, who wouldn't? If she really wants to feel "in love" with you, that is great news. B/c she was drawn to the excitement of giddy feelings she had with OM. Same feelings as when she was dating you. It was the fantasy......not OM specifically, that she really wanted. If she was truly in love with OM, I don't think she would make statements of wishing she felt like that toward you. The fact she has actually put forth effort in the M, is a plus. But she will have those down days.

I have no earthly clue about how to recreate that after being together 21 years. By the requirements she's putting on us, there's no way we'll succeed. I'll never measure up to his fantasy. Of course that's how she feels about OM, because there's no real life to get in the way. She doesn't get that she'd probably be out of love with him (by that definition) in a year or so. If that's truly what she expects out of a relationship, then she's going to fail with every man she's ever with.

Have you tried? She is wanting you to be more like the man you were when she was daring her. It sounds as if she wants the romance. It makes no difference how many years a couple has been together. What matters is how the couple maintains the flirt interactions, surprising her with special planned dates, little sentimental gifts, complementing her with new and fresh words that doesn't sound as if they are coming from a bored, M, man. Think about it. Think about how you treated her when you were going together.

I know it looks on here like I'm still obsessed with OM. I guess that's because I post after W and I have a bad day, and OM is all.she.wants.to.talk.about.

Have you told her it is like a knife to your heart?

Oh, and the things "we" did to let our marriage go. That is, when she's not pointing out my myriad flaws and mistakes. Because, as we all know, if I had been a better husband, she wouldn't have had an A.

There are some WAW's who never tell the H why. These men go nuts wanting to know what he did wrong or where things went hum-drum. So are you saying you don't want to hear it, or that she is saying the same thing every time, or you feel that she is picking on you about the past? Has she said it was your fault she had an affair?

Dammit, I did it again. I knew that things weren't back the way they should be, but I allowed myself to get complacent. I am so gullible when it comes to her.

Complacency is the killer! You still don't see that?

Just when I thought I was out, she pulls me back in.

What does that statement mean?

[Vanilla]

You could do with a GAL plan. Some of the GAL romantic stuff with W. A concert, meal, skating, film, ride just as you did when you first started. A massage etc.

I get the headphones issue and I am with W on this. Have you tried talking this over, I would like to catch up with x, I was planning to watch on my iPad or shall watch it together?

My H spends a lot of his life watching sport on his iPad or the TV, seemingly all day every day, without speaking or communicating. Saturday, Sunday, evenings middle of the night. When do we interact ever, apart from spew times, never. If I interrupt I get more spew.

If you want out of this relationship, slow destruction and complacency is the way to do it. Not a DB way.

Rzr.............

Go back and read the posts where you would have done almost anything for this chance with your W!

Vanilla

[NH115]

IMO, this was the time to validate her, instead of getting out your score board. I am sure you must have triggers also. Perhaps choose a good time you can talk to her. Ask her if the two of you can figure out a solution.

That was an instance where I did attempt to validate her. I know in the past I had an issue with putting on headphones and shutting her out. I get that. She was working on a different computer in the living room; I told her I was heading back to the bedroom to relax. She said OK and said she'd be back in a bit. An hour later she came back, saw me on my iPad with headphones and freaked out, saying we were backsliding into our old patterns.

How on earth does going to church or reading a book remind her of your family?

She's never been an atheist, but always mistrustful of organized religion. I grew up in church. It caused some stress between us but not a lot. My dad is a minister. She's convinced that religion is one of the reasons that they're so meddlesome and toxic, so she's even more against organized religion than before. My going to church is a sign to her that I'm too much like my hated parents. The book thing is a sign that I'm too intellectual and she doesn't fit with me. And if I read a book on religion, watch out!

She says she feels sad all the time, misses him, she feels lost and lonely all the time. I naturally asked her what was up in the last few days then, if that's the way she felt. She said that wasn't how she felt all the time, just then, and the last few days was her trying to put all her effort into our marriage, like we're supposed to. It's like she knows that emotions are transitory, but she can't see past that in the moment. If she feels sad at some point, then she's sad all the time. But I guess the last few days didn't really matter, because they'll never compare to his fantasy. She basically wants to feel in love with me like when we were first together and dating. That's her vision of success.

This is to be expected when a WAS comes back. The sadness, restlessness and depression is there companion until they get through the withdrawal. Are you encouraging her and validating her? When she is putting forth the effort in the MR......recognize it and give her some acknowledgement for it.

I agree, and I do attempt to validate her there. I have openly praised her for having the integrity to end the A on her own before it went any farther. She attacks me for calling it an A because they never actually had sex.

I stop validating when she tells me things like (as happened today)

If I meet and fall in love with someone who is single and lives here, I'm gone.

When she MLs with me, she's fantasizing about him.

Those times I just walked away.

She basically wants to feel in love with me like when we were first together and dating. That's her vision of success.

Well sure, who wouldn't? If she really wants to feel "in love" with you, that is great news. B/c she was drawn to the excitement of giddy feelings she had with OM. Same feelings as when she was dating you. It was the fantasy......not OM specifically, that she really wanted. If she was truly in love with OM, I don't think she would make statements of wishing she felt like that toward you. The fact she has actually put forth effort in the M, is a plus. But she will have those down days.

I know she's having a down weekend. I expected it. Just frustrating is all.

I have no earthly clue about how to recreate that after being together 21 years. By the requirements she's putting on us, there's no way we'll succeed. I'll never measure up to his fantasy. Of course that's how she feels about OM, because there's no real life to get in the way. She doesn't get that she'd probably be out of love with him (by that definition) in a year or so. If that's truly what she expects out of a relationship, then she's going to fail with every man she's ever with.

Have you tried? She is wanting you to be more like the man you were when she was daring her. It sounds as if she wants the romance. It makes no difference how many years a couple has been together. What matters is how the couple maintains the flirt interactions, surprising her with special planned dates, little sentimental gifts, complementing her with new and fresh words that doesn't sound as if they are coming from a bored, M, man. Think about it. Think about how you treated her when you were going together.

Have attempted flirtations, dates, etc. She shoots it down or doesn't reciprocate. That time will come, just not now.

I know it looks on here like I'm still obsessed with OM. I guess that's because I post after W and I have a bad day, and OM is all.she.wants.to.talk.about.

Have you told her it is like a knife to your heart?

Yes, and when I tell her that it's because she's just trying to be honest and I can't handle that.

Oh, and the things "we" did to let our marriage go. That is, when she's not pointing out my myriad flaws and mistakes. Because, as we all know, if I had been a better husband, she wouldn't have had an A.

There are some WAW's who never tell the H why. These men go nuts wanting to know what he did wrong or where things went hum-drum. So are you saying you don't want to hear it, or that she is saying the same thing every time, or you feel that she is picking on you about the past? Has she said it was your fault she had an affair?

She doesn't explicitly tell me it's my fault for the A, but it was my fault for making her vulnerable to the A, as if she could have done absolutely nothing to keep it from progressing as far as it did.

[sandi2]

She doesn't explicitly tell me it's my fault for the A, but it was my fault for making her vulnerable to the A, as if she could have done absolutely nothing to keep it from progressing as far as it did.

You are still pulling out the old score board. Accept your part of the breakdown in the M! You did not fill her EN, and as her H you are suppose to at least try. When women say they aren't happy in their M. It usually means her EN are being ignored. Remember becoming complacent?

It was so long for me that I felt dead inside. I might as well have been walking across the Saharia and met a man who was handing me a tall glass of sweet ice tea. I didn't just jump into an A with him. We started talking and he made me feel special, and good about myself. But since I was already vulnerable to what he was providing (instead of my H), I did not want to stop it. I was already hooked.

Have you actually told her anything you accepted as being your fault? Apparently, you have trouble with admitting it to yourself.

[NH115]

She doesn't explicitly tell me it's my fault for the A, but it was my fault for making her vulnerable to the A, as if she could have done absolutely nothing to keep it from progressing as far as it did.

You are still pulling out the old score board. Accept your part of the breakdown in the M! You did not fill her EN, and as her H you are suppose to at least try. When women say they aren't happy in their M. It usually means her EN are being ignored. Remember becoming complacent?

It was so long for me that I felt dead inside. I might as well have been walking across the Saharia and met a man who was handing me a tall glass of sweet ice tea. I didn't just jump into an A with him. We started talking and he made me feel special, and good about myself. But since I was already vulnerable to what he was providing (instead of my H), I did not want to stop it. I was already hooked.

Have you actually told her anything you accepted as being your fault? Apparently, you have trouble with admitting it to yourself.

Without a doubt. I have fully owned my role in not setting good boundaries with my parents, with my depressiveness during a significant portion of our relationship, and some other things. I know good and well that I helped set the stage for what happened in the sense that I got complacent, and I wasn't meeting her EN.

I don't talk about her A from a position if self-righteousness; different timing and circumstances it could have been me explaining my A to her. I'm far from immune to this.

Your narrative of how you fell into your A is very very similar to hers.

My problem is that she wants me to take some responsibility for her A, which is not going to happen. I'll take a lot of the responsibility for setting the stage, but not for what she decided to do. She also claims she wasn't really in an A since they didn't have sex. I wonder if she would look at things that way if I got myself a GF but didn't have sex with her? (Rhetorical question, I'm not going to do that)

[Vanilla]

Rzr

Great feedback from Sandi, recommend you inwardly digest rather than deflect.

Get back on track.

V

[sandi2]

My problem is that she wants me to take some responsibility for her A, which is not going to happen. I'll take a lot of the responsibility for setting the stage, but not for what she decided to do. She also claims she wasn't really in an A since they didn't have sex. I wonder if she would look at things that way if I got myself a GF but didn't have sex with her? (Rhetorical question, I'm not going to do that)

Actually it her problem that she wants you to take responsibility. For whatever reason (ease of guilt, etc.) the bottom line is that people are individually responsible for their own decisions.

No, she probably would not look at it the same if the shoe was on the other foot. Has she ever heard the term emotional affair? I bet she has, and for women an EA can be serious. I wouldn't write off so quick they never were physical. She can claim they weren't b/c you have no proof. The less proof you have, the less she has to own.

Starsky says something about how a WAS will usually tell the facts at least one level from the truth. The more I observe and learn, the more I am in agreement with him. However, I didn't say that so you would start pushing her about it. I want you to be prepared in case it comes out in the near future.