Trying to stay patient- part 7

[Mozza]

Phew! I thought this might end up in bed...

By the way, this is the perfect sort of interaction at this stage, according to MWD. Well done.

[Tarheel]

Made it through Christmas on good terms. W went to church Christmas Eve with us, then had some shopping to do while the kids and I went to my parents. Text W later in the night because I realized we had one more gift to wrap and she had all the 'Santa' paper. Told me she was just sitting at her place watching a movie, but would drop it off (she left it on the doorstep). Surprised she hadn't gone to her friend's house (they are like family to her).

She came over Christmas morning so the kids could open presents from us/Santa. I got her some small things from the kids, but then felt kind of bad seeing that she had spent more on me. Kind of regretted not having something more, but oh well. She ended up hanging out all day at the house with us. We joked, laughed- seemed like old times, although I did have a few moments of both 'I miss her and want to work this out' and 'I can't believe what she's done.' W and S12 ran over to her dad's at one point. She mentioned they didn't know anything about us, because it wasn't any of their business (she rarely talks to them). Got a text from FIL today and it appears she told them that the other 2 kids and I were sick yesterday (I was not).

While at the house, W called MIL at one point and the phone was passed around to the kids. Then she wanted to talk to me. Awkward to talk with her because I'm still upset that she paid for W's trip to FL with OM and friends (even though W claims they were not 'together' at that point). Ordered chinese for dinner and W stayed til around 9:30p. Was helping her get her stuff together to leave, when she gave me a hug and thanked me for the gifts. For a split second, it appeared she was puckering her lips, but then they quickly changed. She also called me 'dear' at one point during the day- I could tell she caught herself afterwards.

Our communication has definitely improved over the last couple weeks. She'll send me texts or call me about small, inconsequential things. What I realized the other day is that early on, I was conscious of every word that came out of my mouth, every action that I took- to show her how I had changed. Now, my changes just come out, with little thought of how W will interpret them. In that aspect- DBing has been a success!

Next hurdle will be the upcoming week. MIL comes into town Monday and I know W wants to have the kids as much as possible, even though she (and MIL) had them for the full Thanksgiving week with the understanding that I would have them 'more' during Christmas. This past week's schedule has really been no different though. I'm off work the rest of the year and kids are off school. They've been sick off and on the past week, so we haven't done much. W text me earlier today about the schedule and I finally just stopped the back and forth game because we weren't making any progress (and I was busy). I know the game we're both playing- she wants me to take the kids this weekend so she can use that when she asks for time next week and I feel I should get to keep them all week because she had them a full week at Thanksgiving. I know I should be the bigger person and let her take the kids, but I'm also taking into account that they've been sick (2 are passed out right now) and will be recovering the next few days, so do I really get to 'enjoy' my time with them right now??

[Ile Guy]

Howdy Tarheel... Sounds like there is progress... and Maybe, if you feel its right, maybe softening some boundaries in order to promote compromise and good dialogue. Seems like she is coming to terms and may be working on her own 180.. Ill read more, but in the meantime good luck!!!

PMA, PMA, PMA!!!!

[Tarheel]

So the last couple weeks went about as expected- disagreements on who would have the kids on what days while MIL was in town. I tried to propose a schedule prior to her arrival, but W essentially ignored it and would just text the kids when she was on her way to pick them up. Frustrating because my options were to just let her take the kids whenever she pleased or tell her they're not going and risk a fight with her. It takes two to agree to a schedule.

W and I had been getting along pretty well prior to last week, so I asked if she had any interest in hanging out NYE. When she finally gave me an answer, she said she'd rather not have to explain to MIL because she'd have expectations (wanting us to work things out). Felt like that was a weak excuse, especially when I found out that she got together with the OM circle of friends the next night.

So my gameplan had been to just lay low for the next few mos, not extend any more invitations and see how W responded. Had been putting a lot of thought on whether my heart was still in it anymore. Then yesterday a mutual friend (reliable source) told me that his understanding of dinner between OM and W's BFF a couple weeks ago was known by W because she was meeting up with them afterwards. I'm tired of being lied to- lied to throughout our S, lied to while we were going to MC, lied to about OM contact while we were trying to rebuild a friendship...so I sent W a text asking if that was true. She responded that she didn't have to tell me anything anymore and that she was done. I had hurt and manipulated her too much. I had made friendship impossible. She's getting her own atty and filing.

I responded calmly reiterating that as long as she was still in contact with OM, a friendship between us would not work. We went back and forth for a few mins with a few 'whatever's from her before she stopped responding. She prefers to shut down rather than discuss.

We'll see if she actually goes forward as this isn't the first time she's said those words. In the meantime, I'm going dark. Not in an effort to 'win' her back, but to help me in not taking any anger or frustration out on her. I'm ok with moving towards D, just frustrated that we can't just discuss things.

I know that I didn't follow the DB process much these past couple weeks, but I refuse to be a pushover when it comes to the kids. Honesty is a huge part of friendship to me and if I have evidence that W is continuing to lie to me about hanging out with OM (even if they are just friends now), I don't want to be M to her. That is a boundary that I refuse to budge on.

[Mozza]

I'm glad you gave us an update. I was just thinking about you this week. Sorry it's been rocky, though it's been like that for a long time.

So the last couple weeks went about as expected- disagreements on who would have the kids on what days while MIL was in town. I tried to propose a schedule prior to her arrival, but W essentially ignored it and would just text the kids when she was on her way to pick them up. Frustrating because my options were to just let her take the kids whenever she pleased or tell her they're not going and risk a fight with her. It takes two to agree to a schedule.

Be consistent. It's no mystery: she picks them up at will because you let her. Consistently stick to the schedule and she'll learn. Be calm: "I understand you would have liked to see the kids just now, but that's not what we agreed upon." You can also be silent when she lashes out: your point is made. Pack the schedule so that you're not home when she wants to pick the kids. Even on normal weeknights with the kids, I have plans (Christmas tree! cooking brownies!) and guests.

W and I had been getting along pretty well prior to last week, so I asked if she had any interest in hanging out NYE. When she finally gave me an answer, she said she'd rather not have to explain to MIL because she'd have expectations (wanting us to work things out). Felt like that was a weak excuse, especially when I found out that she got together with the OM circle of friends the next night.

The invitation was pursuing. So what if you two get along? If you're DBing, let her make the invitations. It will be like this for months, even if it gets much better. You're the one that's hard to get. Be fun when she's around, that's how you extend an invitation for the next time.

I'm tired of being lied to- lied to throughout our S, lied to while we were going to MC, lied to about OM contact while we were trying to rebuild a friendship...so I sent W a text asking if that was true. She responded that she didn't have to tell me anything anymore and that she was done. I had hurt and manipulated her too much. I had made friendship impossible. She's getting her own atty and filing.

Well done.

I responded calmly reiterating that as long as she was still in contact with OM, a friendship between us would not work. We went back and forth for a few mins with a few 'whatever's from her before she stopped responding. She prefers to shut down rather than discuss.

Oh really? I wonder why. It would be so much fun for her to discuss and she has so much to gain from it -- all these nice things you'd say to her, all the good feelings that you'll share. You should have stopped texting after you established your boundary. Now you let her finish with the upper hand.

I know that I didn't follow the DB process much these past couple weeks, but I refuse to be a pushover when it comes to the kids. Honesty is a huge part of friendship to me and if I have evidence that W is continuing to lie to me about hanging out with OM (even if they are just friends now), I don't want to be M to her. That is a boundary that I refuse to budge on.

DBing is not for pushovers. I don't know where you got that idea. You've been a pushover when it comes to the kids schedule (let her ignore the schedule), unless I misunderstood your description.

As usual, you just want to do what you want. Just an observation. I know how hard it is to control one's feelings and actions and it's been a constant in your sitch.

I also think you're very far from ready to have her back. You'll fall back into all your controlling behaviors as soon as she's back and you two will last about a month or a year. You still need to work a lot on yourself and think about your impulse control and how it will affect your future. No one else has to live with it but you.

[Wonka]

Tar,

You're getting all Wet Noodle here. Seriously...we've offered you tons and tons of advice. The problem is you're operating from a place of fear instead of Steve McQueen courage and strength.

[Tarheel]

Thanks for your comments Mozza, just wanted to address a couple points...

We don't have a schedule for the kids. The problem was when W first moved into her condo about 2-3 mos ago, the kids didn't want to go over there during the week so she would usually take them on the weekends. I was fine with that because it allowed me to GAL with friends on a Fri/Sat night. Lately, they've been more comfortable staying there during the week, so it is time that we create a set schedule.

I realized after my NYE invite was declined that I can't recall a single invite W has extended to me, despite her claims that she wants to work on our friendship. So I'm done extending them.

By no means did I mean to imply DBing is for pushovers.... I just finished writing a long excuse for my actions, but then deleted it because I do recognize that I need to work on my controlling actions. Point taken.

[Tarheel]

One of my big problems has been my attitude towards what I will put up with (aka boundary). I've been a mix between 'I will not live in an open M' and 'I will wait patiently until my W ends her A and comes back to our M.' This is not to knock anyone on here, but I can't envision myself remaining in a M in which my W openly has an A, talks to me about OM, etc. On the same token, my goal when first posting my story was to win my W back, knowing that at least (at that time) an EA was going on.

W and I have lived apart for almost 16 mos now. I have had very little intel during that time and her friends were obviously not going out of their way to share info with me. So all I had to go on was W's word. When I find out that she's lied to me (like the OM/BFF dinner weeks ago), I'm upset. I feel vulnerable when I put myself out there to W, willing to forgive and move forward as friends, then to find out I've been lied to. I feel like my extending friendship to her has been taken advantage of. I feel hurt. I don't want friends who lie to me. It's then that I react from a place of pain and act on my emotions.

I've had positive moments and I've done some things by the book, but I often only post the 'wrong' things I've done on here to get feedback. If I have a good interaction with W, I pat myself on the back. When something goes bad, I post on here- partly to journal and partly to receive constructive criticism. I guess that's my way of saying I am listening to the advice I receive, but I have a long way to go.

[Wonka]

Tar,

Here's some advice straight from the horse's mouth:

Sometimes, even after you've done all the right things, your spouse still refuses to stop seeing the OP. (...)

However, you shouldn't do it unless you are prepared to end your marriage because that's just what it might do. However, it might serve as a wake-up call to your spouse. It's hard to predict what will happen.

Tell your spouse that you love her enough that you are prepared to let go, then back off completely. Don't spend time together. Don't speak on the phone unless it's about the children. Have as little face-to-face contact as possible. Don't do nice things anymore. Don't call. Don't email. Don't initiate contact of any sort. Don't allow your spouse to feel that there is a relationship between you any longer. Continue this emotional cutoff until your spouse gets that there will be no relationship of any sort until and unless the OP is completely out of the picture.

We've been telling you ^^^ this in so many different ways....myself, Sandi, Starsky, and others.

You're holding back because of your fear. Of your W's reactions.

[Tarheel]

Thanks Wonka- I'm going to sit on that. Maybe that's not only what W 'needs', but what I need as well.