I am the Queen of Cheat Sheets. No. I did not cheat my way through high school and college. By the way, for a copy of the Boundaries Cheat Sheet will cost you $100.00 per copy. Shhhhhh...don't tell Principal MWD. Guys, be nice to me...my last visit to the principal's office was back in the 2nd grade and I am a reformed mean girl. Truly.
Somebody's got to make a living off this, right?
There's been a ton of debate, discussion, and dabbling on the subject of boundaries flying all over the place in the DB forums. There's been a whole gamut of examples of Wet Noddle moments to the firebrand Hulk Hogan metal-chair shattering ones. Now, there has to be a medium between these two extremes when DBing.
Let's start with a question here.
What is a boundary? In the most basic form, it is a line of demarcation. Right? We all live in a world of boundaries with clearly defined nations, states, cities along with our own homes with white picket fences/acreage, storage units, school zones, etc. These are physical boundaries that we adhere to along with codified laws of the land to promote and maintain peace and harmony as co-existing neighbors on planet Earth.
There are, I think, three types of boundaries:
-Physical -Emotional -Mental
We interact with thousands of people on a daily basis through in-person encounters, over the telephone, over emails, and through texting (what's next? teleporting?). When we first meet strangers for the first time, the physical boundary is approximately 2 feet apart or so. That is the unspoken social boundary that most people respect when meeting people for the first time. That "hole" is our own personal space. You've noticed how uncomfortable you get when someone you meet for the first time crosses that plane...right? Heebie jebbies time, right? You slowly backpedal telling yourself in a sotto voce whisper to yourself, "Jeez, this person is totally creeping me out!"
You all get the idea here.
You get married. Joy. Rapture. Bliss.
This is when the boundaries between spouses slowly dissolve as you join as a unit called "married couple". By that stage, you've seen each other's best features and some not so likable flaws/faults after living together for some time. However, in healthy relationships, not ALL boundaries completely disappear for there's some semblance of mutual respect that underpins the marital relationship.
Now you are here in DB with a Wayward Spouse who may or may not be involved in an affair for a host of reasons that is truly devastating to YOU and/or your family.
Respect and boundaries GOES right out of the window. Poof! Commence the re-writing of your marital history, demonizing you, and just downright plowing right over your personal boundaries in a roughshod manner.
What's a cuddly Furby like you to do with those nasty Gremlins??!!
Ah....therein lies the rub.
We hope by the end of this tutorial, you'll be able to find your courage like the Lion in the Wizard of the Oz thus winning the Bravery Medal in Boundaries!
Here's to reclaiming some of your mojo!
The key to establishing and enforcing a boundary is being absolutely fearless knowing that you deserve and demand respect from your spouse. Trying to appease your spouse isn't the way to DBing and saving your M (and yourself). Appeasement out of fear is a true disservice to YOURSELF first and foremost. Respect begins with you. You are 100% responsible for how people treat you. It is as simple as that.
When you respect yourself, the rest will follow in line.
Sure, your spouse may get angry and spew. Not your fault. You are not responsible for their actions/behaviors. You only can be responsible for YOUR OWN conduct.
Like the Lion, when he encountered the Oz's spew for the first time, his knees buckled, simply turned tail and ran away crying like a baby that he was. Silly, eh?
Same with you.
Don't be so afraid of your WAS. You're giving them way too much power inside your own head. Don't let them mistreat you nor disrespect you.
Take back your own power and stand up for YOURSELF. Because no one else will do it for you.
GREAT idea for a thread, Wonka! I will have more to add later, for sure, but just wanted to be the first to thank you for initiating a very misunderstood subject, that needs to be addressed more often!
Here are some boundary setting statements and enforcing them.
Boundaries are for YOU and for your own well-being. Boundaries are not controlling at all. Simply statements of actions, comments, or behaviors by the other person that are not acceptable. It is signaling and communicating to the other person what's happening and what you will do if they persist in their actions.
To get you started, you might want to read Boundaries by Henry Cloud and John Townsend. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Boundary: I will no longer let someone yell at me on the phone.
Enforcing a boundary: When someone starts yelling at me, I will calmly end the conversation. "Let's talk about this tomorrow when we can speak more calmly." "I don't like the names you are calling me. We can talk tomorrow." Then you hang up.. you don't wait for the person to say, "O.K., fine," nor do you get into a debate. You hang up. The person doesn't necessarily have to understand your position or agree with it. This isn't about communication right now. This is about your boundary. Two different things.
"I am not going to discuss or debate this with you."
"This is non-negotiable."
"I understand that you are upset. Perhaps we should discuss this later when we're both in a calmer state of mind?"
"I think I need to take a break from this conversation. I will talk to you some other time."
"Please don't speak to me like that. I really don't like it and it is hurtful."
"I've asked you not to speak to me like that. I love you very much but I don't let anybody speak to me like that."
"I don’t have to listen to this."
"I'm not obligated to justify myself to you."
"That is all I have to say on the matter."
“I’m not trying for one of us to be right or wrong, but for the relationship to be the best it could possibly be. I need XX."
“I’ve given this a lot of thought. I am learning more about myself and what I can and can’t do and what I need. And I need XX.”
“I understand you think it means I’m selfish. Still, I need XX.”
“I am not trying to be controlling. I am trying to be open and honest about how I feel. I need XX.”
“I’m not sure how to answer that. But what I do know is that things can’t go on this way. I need XX.”
“It is true that we don’t see things the same way. I wish we did, because this isn’t easy for me either. What I need is XX.”
"That's too big of a topic to tackle right now. We'll speak about it another time."
"I hear what you're saying. I'll consider it."
"You may do X. I have decided to do Y. There's nothing more to discuss."
"If you continue to yell/be abusive, I will hang up. I'm hanging up now."
"I know you're feeling low. I'm not in a position to be very supportive right now, however."
"I find that this conversation is pushing my buttons. I'm getting off the phone now. We can speak again later."
"Discussing this by phone seems to trigger a lot of emotion for us both. I will summarize things in an e-mail. We can resolve it that way."
"I'm not available by phone right now. Please e-mail me."
"I need to take a few days off from speaking about this. Let's talk on Friday."
"It is hard for me to keep my heart [or eyes, ears] open to you when you are yelling at me, and it is important to me to keep my heart [eyes, ears] open to you. If you cannot stop yelling at me, we will have to talk another time. I want to keep my heart [eyes, ears] open to you, and I do not know how to do that when you are yelling, so I am going to hang up and talk to you another time."
Yeah, I sort of learnt it, but didn't know how to find the words when I can see their side.
I always felt seeing their side, meant giving up your side giving up your needs by comprising.
My h thinks that I cannot see his side due to wanting the stettlement and seeing his side would mean forgoing it.
These sessions and threads should be pinned as the script it universal. It helped me before to nicely stand up to a bully. I do know how to stand up in a much more confrontational way, but this really makes clear what you need.
Then it means you can take actions like walk away.
M 46 h54 Both married before T 11y Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads! Ms 18 hs 26
What about unspoken boundaries? You don't need/approve of unwarranted compliments for sake of having something to say. Thus these compliments get no reply. This causes the other person to stop complimenting. At least from my experience.
Me43/WAW43..M 4y..S1 11/S2 4..Bomb2/2014..Dfile 5/2014..Settlement signed 8/20/14..D final 8/29/14 I moved out 10/10/14..WAW got D she wanted. I wanted R. No waiting,just no boundaries in her way.
Great thread idea, Wonka!!! I've found I'm explaining "boundaries" vs. "control" or "ultimatums" a lot these days. That's because the topic IS so misunderstood.
We ALL have boundaries. They're just really hard to set and enforce in the face of FEAR, as I believe you stated.
Here's another helpful post that Puppy/Starsky often shares, from a former poster, Jayne:
Quote:
There used to be a poster here named Jayne, who one day summed up the concept of boundaries better and clearer than just about anything I've ever read, so I decided to save this in my archives. Obviously, change the gender as needed to fit your own sitch:
Jayne, on “boundaries”:
Think about boundaries like this:
Boundaries are not about controlling the other person, because boundaries are about drawing "circles" around *you* and determining what you will and won't allow inside that circle.
Your WxH can do whatever he wants OUTSIDE that circle. You are not telling him what to do.
But you will only let into that circle people who treat you with respect.
He's free to go on treating you with disrespect, but you won't know about it because he'll be outside your circle. He's free to go on and draw his own boundaries of no expectations and no responsibilities, outside your circle.
He can do WHATEVER he wants. He's a free person, free to make WHATEVER choices he wants.
BUT SO ARE YOU, and you are free to choose who to allow within your circle.
That's all. Not about trying to control him at all. Tell him he's totally free. He has the WHOLE WORLD, outside your circle, to go and do whatever he wants.
If he's saying you have to let him into your circle no matter what, then THAT is about HIM controlling YOU.
This thread - and being able to simply link to it - will save me some finger-cramps! You da woman, Wonka! xo
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
More gems..... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It is impossible to set boundaries without setting consequences. If you are setting boundaries in a relationship, and you are not yet at a point where you are ready to leave the relationship then don't say that you will leave. Never state something that you are not willing to follow through with. To set boundaries and not enforce them just gives the other person an excuse to continue in the same old behavior. For example: “If you call me names I will confront you about your behavior each and every time and will share my feelings with you. I will not tolerate verbal abuse. If you continue this behavior, I will weigh my options, including leaving this relationship. I do not deserve this and I will not put up with it any longer”.
“If you continue to break your plans with me by not showing up or calling me at the last minute to cancel, I will confront you about this behavior and share my feelings. If this behavior continues, I will consider it to mean that you do not respect me or this relationship and I will have no contact with you for a month, until we can both evaluate and figure out our priorities. If I chose to get back in touch with you, and the behavior continues, we will no longer be in any type of relationship together”.
“When I ask you what is wrong, and you say “nothing”, but then proceed to slam doors or kick the wall, and seem to be angry, I feel angry or frustrated that you refuse to communicate properly with me as if I am supposed to read your mind. If something is bothering you, I will trust you to let me know after you have spent some time cooling off alone. If you continue to punish me with your silence or fits, I will tell you how it makes me feel. If this behavior continues, I will weigh my options for this relationship. I do not deserve this type of behavior and will not put up with it any longer”. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“I understand that you think you are better than others. I think that someday you will see that we are all equal.”
“We are all doing our best, all the time.”
“Thanks for pointing out my error. I think that is mistake #201 this week. I think I am doing better. How are you doing?”
“I wish I were perfect, but I guess I have to settle for being human.”
“Of course we don’t agree. I wasn’t born to agree. I’m learning to be agreeable.”
“I like this. That’s who likes it.” ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“Before we get too far, can you tell me what your plans are for this project?”
“You know, it doesn’t seem my feelings are being taken into account. Let’s talk about this before things progress any further?”
“It’s really important to me that ____________ (fill in the blank). Are we on the same page with that?”
“I certainly respect your needs. I’d like to talk about this to make sure my needs are being met too.”
“I tend to be direct to avoid problems down the road. Let’s compare plans and make sure we’re in agreement.”
“This isn’t really what I had in mind. Can you tell me what you’re thinking so I can be sure we agree?”
I'm still having trouble with enforcing boundaries. Sometimes I have the strength to hang up the phone when she starts spewing, sometimes I don't. The time-out suggestion we got from our therapist was the best one so far because it allows us a way to disengage without the other one necessarily feel like they're being abandoned. When my W is in the big middle of her panic spew, anything I do is wrong. I just have to get over that fear I guess. Sometimes I feel like my only consequence is leaving, and I don't want to trot that one out all the time. There's got to be a better middle ground.
She's not testing me right now, I just know it's a matter of time.
Last edited by NH115; 03/24/1508:05 PM.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
Try to think of it as leaving the CONVERSATION, not leaving HER. With the promise (which you then need to follow thru on) that the conversation will continue when she is ready to speak respectfully to you.
We are not "abandoning" people when we refuse to engage in disrespectful conversation with them.
Try to think of it as leaving the CONVERSATION, not leaving HER. With the promise (which you then need to follow thru on) that the conversation will continue when she is ready to speak respectfully to you.
We are not "abandoning" people when we refuse to engage in disrespectful conversation with them.
Starsky
That's a good way to put it. Of course, when she's in that state then everything I do other than sit there and be a big target is "abandoning" her.
Just had an epiphany...abandonment is one of my buttons she knows she can press, so she does. She talks constantly about being alone and feeling abandoned, and in her mind me leaving the conversation just reinforces her claim that I'll walk out on her when things get tough. That's a fear I'm going to need to get over as part of my strengthening process.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
Boundaries never hurt. Punishment hurts. There is a big difference between issuing an ultimatum and enforcing a boundary. When you enforce a boundary, you are protecting yourself and holding others accountable for the consequences of *their* actions.
Consequences do not equal punishment. They occur naturally with every decision or action we make and take, and they can be positive, neutral or negative. If we prevent people from experiencing consequences, we teach them that we don't value ourselves so why should they?
Make sense?
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Boundaries are about you and no one else. For example, one of my personal boundaries is that I refuse to gossip or engage in gossip. So if you try to involve me in gossip I will excuse myself from the conversation. You are free to gossip—just not with me.
Too many times we discuss “boundaries” in the context of what we will permit others to do in our life. Which is not a “boundary” this is control.
I think Starkey gave an excellent example when he said, “Try to think of it as leaving the CONVERSATION, not leaving HER. With the promise (which you then need to follow thru on) that the conversation will continue when she is ready to speak respectfully to you.”
Walking away from a spouse and rejecting all interaction because you don’t like the way a spouse communicates is not a boundary. It is control and (in my opinion) it borders on abuse because it doesn’t give your spouse a choice.
“I refuse to talk to you when you are screaming” is not the same as “I think this discussion is important. But I think we need to take a break. Can we discuss this tomorrow night after dinner?”
If your spouse refuses to take a break then you need to discuss changing the volume.
But you are not permitted to end a discussion without your spouse agreeing. Again, walking away (except where your physical safety is threatened) is not a boundary—it is control.
“I realize you are very upset. But I must be honest, right now I am more focused on how you are saying things to me than what you are saying. Understanding your point of view and understanding your feelings are very important to me. Can we figure out another way to have this discussion?” Is an entirely different conversation than, “I am not going to listen to you scream at me.”
I cringe when people say one of their “boundaries” is not permitting their spouse to “scream” at them. Or not permitting their spouse to go out with their friends. Or not permitting their spouse to do anything.
Giving “permission” is not a word spouses should use with each other. The spousal relationship is a partnership. Spouses should “reach an agreement.”
I like what Underdog said, "Boundaries never hurt."
Boundaries are for YOU. For example, I don't let people smoke in my car. It doesn't mean that I am controlling them; they still can smoke. Just not in my car. That's my personal space. Do you see now the general concept behind boundaries?
Let's take your recent example here: "If we are going to communicate effectively and resolve seperation/custody/property issues then I need you to actually read my emails and respond."
Is that a true boundary or more of a controlling statement?
You cannot make someone read emails or not. However, you can facilitate improved communications by setting the tone and coming across as cooperative by seeking out the other person's thoughts.
I am not up to speed on your specific sitch. However, you need to differentiate between a true boundary or trying to control something (event, outcome, etc.) out of frustration or fear.
My WW and I are separated for over a year and I haven't talked to her in over 4 months. I feel like I should establish a boundary regarding her email communication (or lack thereof).
I'm trying to get bills transferred and take care of some of the financial stuff before the D in a couple of weeks (which she filed for BTW). She doesn't respond to my emails and I constantly have to send her follow up emails, which is a waste of my time.
Please help me draft boundary text message or email to her that does not sound controlling or is not an ultimatum. Thanks.
Me: 34 W: 30 Together: 11 years Married: 4 years BD: 4/2014 A Discovered: 5/2014 WW Filed: 7/2014 Separated: 8/2014 Divorced: 10/2015
Hi Thriver, Jim helped me with a little technique which has served me well. Not something to over-use, but helpful if you're not getting a response. The technique is to say that you will do X unless you hear from her by Y. So...
Dear W, I'll be arranging X this week, unless I hear from you otherwise by Tuesday.
We had a couple things that needed both H and I on the phone and H did help with that...but the above response can be useful if you can make the change alone and just don't want 'no response' to hold you up.
Hope this helps xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
I am also having difficulty with boundaries. My WW (well, partner, as we never actually tied the knot) is engaged in an emotional affair with a man in another country and has been unable to stop. She has tried a few times, but now it seems like she doesn't even want to. They mainly communicate through skype. I have taken to blocking it on occasion when it is driving me mad, but this usually ends up in an argument - that I am infantilising her, that she is a grown woman and can do what she wants and is entitled to her privacy, etc. I recently asked her if she would stop communicating with him from in the house as I found it disrespectful to me, the family (we have 2 children), and to our home. She was unwilling to do this and we had another brief argument.
Is this a boundary or is this control that I am applying?
I've been going through a lot of turmoil since I found out about this in the Summer, and I will probably start a new thread to describe my situation and ask for advice.
I want to save our relationship, but I am not sure how long I can go on like this, as it feels like she is torn and always has me as a backstop if she goes off the EAP. I know it's not as bad as a physical affair but the stress has been awful.
Thanks
D
-- Me: 47 WW: 35 SS: 17 D: 5 T: 7 yrs Engaged: 2 yrs OEA confirmed: August 17 2016 ongoing since April 2016. OEA continues (with occasional breaks) BD2 - W says will visit OM in Jan 18
Well I blocked it again last night. Led to predictable argument this morning. I am infantilising her, treating her like a child, controlling her. Therefore I should consider the relationship over.
I pointed out that she could still communicate on skype, only that I couldn't be an enabler to that either actively or passively. She can use mobile data on her phone, or put in another internet line, which is what she is talking about.
She seemed a little calmer by the time she left the house at lunchtime, I am working from home this week, although usually I am out of the house nearly 14 hours a day due to a long commute.
Next step is what to do with the MBR, which is not clear cut, as I have been out of there for many months anyway, to be close to my daughter who wakes up in the night - it was less disturbing for me to be able to get her back to bed quickly.
Most recently I am out due to waking up WW accidentally, then having major row about EA. She was going to move out to the spare room, but guilted me due to her back problems, etc. She even ordered a new bed, which I am now in :-/ Now she says she is claiming the MBR as I have claimed the internet by blocking Skype.
Stick to my guns, or am I being controlling. Should I unblock stuff, but just say that we should consider ourselves not in a R while she continues with the EA or even accept any boundaries with regards to the EA. She is a strong woman, part of what I love about her, but she is used to getting her own way.
-- Me: 47 WW: 35 SS: 17 D: 5 T: 7 yrs Engaged: 2 yrs OEA confirmed: August 17 2016 ongoing since April 2016. OEA continues (with occasional breaks) BD2 - W says will visit OM in Jan 18
Be aware a boundary is a boundary because it is something you state a consequence to first, so if you x then I will y is a boundary, if you just do action y then there is no chance that the other will modify in respect to you.
An action alone is not a boundary and can be seen as controlling and rather random.
So you text OM or OW and now I am puthing your phone in a bucket of water is both controlling and abusive.
If you text OW or OM in my presence then I will request your mobile bill be paid from your account, I will stop the DD on mine.
This allows behaviour to modify and states what you will do if it doesn't. It is under your control and it is your action.
And if WW has a bad back and needs to sleep in an uncomfortable bed her choice. You stay in the MBR.
Be aware a boundary is a boundary because it is something you state a consequence to first, so if you x then I will y is a boundary, if you just do action y then there is no chance that the other will modify in respect to you.
An action alone is not a boundary and can be seen as controlling and rather random.
So you text OM or OW and now I am puthing your phone in a bucket of water is both controlling and abusive.
If you text OW or OM in my presence then I will request your mobile bill be paid from your account, I will stop the DD on mine.
I refused to top up her phone when she requested last week - said I couldn't while she was contacting OM. I had cancelled the auto-pay on it earlier that week.
Quote:
This allows behaviour to modify and states what you will do if it doesn't. It is under your control and it is your action.
And if WW has a bad back and needs to sleep in an uncomfortable bed her choice. You stay in the MBR.
Just re-reading this. I am planning to go back in MBR on Saturday as D has friend staying over, so would not be in her room. WW is out with friends until approx 11pm anyway. As you say, her choice as to whether she chooses MBR or spare room.
I have made it abundantly clear that I will not go back into spare room, and I am determined to no longer be guilted by her.
Last edited by Cadet; 12/16/1609:21 AM. Reason: fix quote and link
-- Me: 47 WW: 35 SS: 17 D: 5 T: 7 yrs Engaged: 2 yrs OEA confirmed: August 17 2016 ongoing since April 2016. OEA continues (with occasional breaks) BD2 - W says will visit OM in Jan 18
What boundaries can I set in regards to her chatting with OM in the house? I already separated our phone bill which she is paying for herself now. And I also I pay for half her car, do I tell her not to see OM in that car or else?
Boundaries let people know where they stop and you start. Boundaries let others know how they can treat you, if you can't show someone that you love and respect yourself then it's hard for them to do so. Boundaries are for yourself and are needed in a healthy, loving relationship. You won't get the love you need without communicating and enforcing your boundaries. Boundaries are not controlling, manipulative, or blaming. Setting a boundary is not making a threat - it is communicating clearly what the consequences will be if the other person continues to treat us in an unacceptable manner. It is a consequence of the other persons behavior. When you make a boundary you are choosing for yourself how you let others treat you. When you make a choice you empower yourself. I have decided this is how I will be treated and I am responsible to myself, I am not a victim because I have a choice in my life.
Boundaries work for all parties involved. Try them out they help you handle it.
Quote
When you . . . . . I feel . . . . .
I want . . If you ...... I will.....
Quote
If you - a description of the behavior we find unacceptable (again being as descriptive as possible.) I will - a description of what action you will take to protect and take care of your self in the event the other person violates the boundary.
If you continue this behavior - a description of what steps you will take to protect the boundary that you have set.
Example:
Quote
When I ask you what is wrong and you say "Never mind," and then slam cabinet doors and rattle pots and pans and generally seem to be silently raging about something, I feel angry, frustrated, irritated, hopeless, as if you are unwilling to communicate with me, as if I am supposed to read your mind.
I want you to communicate with me and help me to understand if I have done something that upsets you. If something is bothering you and you will not tell me what it is, I will confront you about your behavior and share my feelings. If you continue that behavior, I will confront your behavior, share my feelings, and insist that we go to counseling together. If you keep repeating this behavior I will start considering all of my options, including leaving this relationship.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
A boundary is USELESS unless you are prepared to ENFORCE it. You will be challenged and tested on every one of your boundaries. So make darned sure you can enforce them because if you don't you are wasting your breath and increasing the contempt she feels for you.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I have said my boundaries multiple times. WW doesnt care unfortunately.
Originally Posted by sandi2
Stating your boundary to her means nothing. Enforcing your boundary has weight. If she suffers consequences for dishonoring your boundary......so be it. If she doesn't have consequences, but it protects your respect, dignity, emotional feelings......then that's the point/reason for the boundary.
Don't restate your boundary, as if it is a threat to her. Every time you say it and don't back it up, you weaken the boundary...….b/c you are proving it that it's really not a boundary at all.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Boundaries are not directly used for you to get your WW back. At all! And they are NEVER ever to be used as any type of punishment.
Boundaries and ENFORCEMENT of boundaries is for your personal safety and peace of mind. You enforce your rules and it makes you stronger. Oh, it will PISS her off! She will HATE you. You will be the worst person in the world. She will say hateful things. Call you an ass. Blah blah. You're not an ass, you are only taking control away from her and the wayward hates losing control of you!
You see, waywards want to control you. They want the benefits of having you there at their disposal. Do her bidding, slave. And be grateful she gives you the crumbs off her napkin while she sleeps with OM.
SHE DOES NOT RESPECT YOU.
When you are stronger with boundary enforcement and no longer a pushover, she can do nothing but respect your boundaries, which results in respecting you by proxy. That alone is not enough to bring her back, but it is a good start for getting your balls back.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
"W, When you do not tell me who you were with and what you did when I ask, I feel I can not trust you, I need a partner that is open and honest. If you are unable to be open and honest with me, I see no reason to stay married."
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
A boundary I did with H. He has a bad habit of raising his voice . Always escalated between us . He did this a few weeks ago . I stated if you raise your voice again I will hang up . He raised his voice . So I hung up . He then called a ton back . I didn’t answer . He sent nasty messages . I responded the same thing . You yell- I hang up . You send me nasty messages - I won’t respond . Last time it’s happened . See the boundary was mainly for me . I know how we escalate fights so I chose to eliminate it . It’s not even an option.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I need a concrete amount from loan. I don’t have extra $ to throw around. As it is I already have to come up with $xx. Do you think I’m made of $? So once again, I’ve been getting f*#ked all along!!!!! We need to discuss this ASAP.
I am so tired how this is what she wants but she thinks she is getting s*#ewed. How do I respond?
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Stick to business. "I am available on XX day between XX and XX to discuss, let me know what time works for you." Ignore the emotional part of it. If she continues to rant and rave then establish a boundary. "I will not be spoken to in this manner. If you wish to discuss this in a civil manner then I am happy to listen, but if you are going to launch personal attacks on me then the conversation is over." Don't validate personal attacks.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
He needs to decide his boundaries. A lot of people have no idea what their boundaries are, or even what it means to enforce boundaries. It is one of the links in the post Cadet gives newcomers. He needs to study it. Decide what principles he can not live without having these honored in his life. Decide what he will not tolerate in his life.
Boundaries are not to be used to police the other person's life. It is to protect him. If the other person crosses that line he has around him for protection, then it is a direct attack on him. It may be rather subtle, or it may be daring.....but they have crossed the line. Now, what will he do about it? Slug it out? No, I don't mean anything physical. What else can he do? Since he cannot control the actions of the other person, then that just leaves him doing the action. Here's the catch......if his action does not cause some type of consequence for the other person, then it is not an effective boundary.
And an ineffective boundary is no boundary at all. He needs to know, in advance, what his actions will be, if his boundary is dishonored........then by all means, know he can carry it through.
He should never make some brave statement and then back away when tested. B/c believe me, the WW is going to test those boundaries, so he needs to suit up his armor every single day.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
A boundary is to protect yourself, and it must have ramifications if it isn't honored.
Let's say your W starts screaming at you, here is an ineffective boundary:
"Stop yelling at me!"
Or what? There's no stated ramification. So she keeps yelling at you and you yell back, or you sit there and cower.
Another ineffective boundary:
"Stop yelling at me or I will ask you to leave."
You can't make her leave, so your ramification is completely dependent upon her choosing whether or not to honor it, and that makes it worthless.
Effective boundary:
"I will not tolerate you raising your voice to me, if you continue to do so I will hang up/ leave."
THIS is a good boundary, because if she continues yelling then YOU take immediate action on your own. If on the phone you simply hang up. If she calls back immediately you don't answer. If it's in person you leave the room or even the house.
So now that you know the difference, you need to understand that if your boundary is going to be something like "I will not remain under the same roof with you if you continue to engage in an affair" then you've got to A) determine a consequence for that and B) be 100% ready to follow through. When you're talking about an A, there is little you can do as far as a consequence other than separate or divorce. And you've got to be very sure you are OK with that, because that is probably what she wants anyway and basically you'll be doing all the hard work she doesn't want to do!
Please note that this isn't "effective" in the sense that it changes anything on her part, because it probably won't. It is effective because it protects YOU from further harm, damage and heartache resulting from her A.
So that's a boundary. As far as canceling Netflix and such, that's up to you but just understand it won't change anything and she will probably think you're being petty and vindictive. Frankly that's kind of a passive/aggressive NGS move.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Just finding this tough to even be assertive through fear of conflict.
Originally Posted by CWarrior
"Good fences make good neighbors." Asserting your boundaries, and respecting hers, is the potential way out of this recurring conflict. The murkier the borders, the more conflict you're both in for.
Building the wall in the first place, of course, is unpleasant.
[Side note--Robert Frost's "Mending Wall" is credited with this line, but his poem actually disagrees with the concept--at least when neighbors have no basis for potential dispute, the walls simply separate us.]
I love Ready2Change's line in the sand, and that it's at the end after a reasonable proposal instead of the beginning: "If I don't hear back from you by (give her two days to responds), I will plan on following the normal parenting schedule." That you already have an agreed-upon schedule, that gives you the whole week, and you both need to approve exceptions is a strong position and should allow you room to negotiate a deal for this year and future years that gives you both access to the kids without too many exchanges.
In my custody agreement, one of us has Xmas Eve and Morning, the other has Xmas Day and the week after for a winter vacation. A single exchange, and both get to enjoy holiday magic with the kids!
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
How did you reassert the boundary about emergencies? I'm wondering if you were extremely clear and objective. If so, you would already know what to do, imo.
If I could make a suggestion, it would be this:
W, I am only going to communicate with you about emergencies to do with S. (note - boundary setting is about what you are going to do, not about what you want HER to do. She will, and can, continue to do what she is doing. How you respond is what you control.) So, W, if you call me I will not answer. If you text me what the emergency to do with S is, I will respond if it is in fact an emergency. If you do not text specifics, I will consider it not an emergency and will not respond.
That is what I would consider really clear. And that would inform you whether to respond to "I'm really sorry" texts (no, and don't give it a moment's thought) or to "call me" texts (no, because you are being ambushed with non-emergencies). or to "I want to know how S is doing" (no, because she knows how to reach S directly).
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
When your boundaries have been violated it is imperative that you detach completely and refuse to engage in R talks. Because no matter what words you speak, what you're saying is "I'm willing to compromise my boundaries"....So what do you do instead? I'm not saying stone wall. Not at all. If they start an R talk you can certainly VALIDATE. You can demonstrate 180s through your ACTIONS (NOT your words). But you cannot, must not, pour emotional energy into a relationship that doesn't meet your minimum requirements. Continue to work on yourself for you, GAL to meet your emotional needs elsewhere so you don't feel as needy, and be a leader. I always say that you can't expect a WAS to let go of OP if you can't let go of them. Lead by example and show them what it means to take control of your own happiness and act with character.
Now, I'm not suggesting this is the answer to everything. There are certainly limbos where the boundaries aren't black and white. Like a spouse that isn't cheating, hasn't filed, has said they aren't sure what they want yet. This is a difficult situation and there is much more that could be discussed about it. Time means a lot here because if this has gone on for one day that is totally different than 10 years. Each person has to find what they feel is the right boundary. Do you stand for marriage for the rest of your life on character? Do you decide to move on after a year, or six months, and file yourself? Not easy decisions to make.
But in the end, let's be clear that identifying your boundaries based on your beliefs and personal values is the hard part. What to do if someone crosses those boundaries should be very clear and flawlessly executed. And reengaging with a person that has violated your boundaries should happen only in the face of remorse and recommitment. And then it should follow slowly based on consistent positive action.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Boundaries are not about controlling the other person, because boundaries are about drawing "circles" around *you* and determining what you will and won't allow inside that circle.
Your wayward wife can do whatever she wants OUTSIDE that circle. You are not telling her what to do.
But you will only let into that circle people who treat you with respect.
She's free to go on treating you with disrespect, but you won't know about it because she'll be outside your circle. She's free to go on and draw her own boundaries of no expectations and no responsibilities, outside your circle.
She can do WHATEVER she wants. She's a free person, free to make WHATEVER choices she wants.
BUT SO ARE YOU, and you are free to choose who to allow within your circle.
That's all. Not about trying to control her at all. Tell her she's totally free. She has the WHOLE WORLD, outside your circle, to go and do whatever she wants.
If she's saying you have to let her into your circle no matter what, then THAT is about HER controlling YOU.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Guys, be nice to me...my last visit to the principal's office was back in the 2nd grade and I am a reformed mean girl. Truly.
xo
