She called me out of the blue just to talk this afternoon, and didn't sound depressed for a change. I know better than to mind read, but that was unusual behavior for her. Hmmm.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
Well, in case anyone was wondering why it's bad to snoop.
Other than some spot checking of her text messages, I haven't been checking up on W in the last few weeks. I weakened this evening and looked at her browser history. Multiple searches on Facebook and on google for both OM and his wife. She also looked up a wikihow article on "How to get a man to leave his wife". She also looked up an article on the lies of married men.
I'm not that angry; to be honest I'm a lot harder to shock than I used to be. It's just disheartening to see that she's still a lot more obsessed with OM than even I thought.
I'm not going to say anything to her.
Be the better man. Stay positive and focused. FIDO (F*** It and Drive On)
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
Sweeping this under the rug is NOT going to help, Rzr. I'd be willing to overlook perhaps the simple "pining" of the online stalking, but the "how to get a man to leave his wife"? Seriously??
How in the world do I do that w/o her knowing that I'm snooping? If there was a pattern of articles like that I'd be more concerned, but that was the only one I could find. The article itself wouldnt have been exactly encouraging to her if she were serious.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
Maybe a little more direct than I should have been, but keeping my tone under control was an issue at the time.
And this is why I keep saying to stop the R talks. You, Rzrback, can't control your emotions, wording, or tone of voice.......which only makes matters worse.
Frankly, when you said something about considering yourselves in piecing and having R discussions, I kind of thought it sounded like an excuse to continue the talks. It never ended. You blame her for it, but you respond in a way that doesn't set right with her and then you both are angry. Where does it get you? And why do you keep doing what isn't working?
If my H and I had had R talks as much you and W, I honestly don't know if we would have made it or not. Which seems funny when you consider that it was me that ALWAYS initiated the talks down through our marital history.
Your W sounds as if she is trying to weigh everything in her mind. But instead of silently thinking it over, she is the type who needs to hash it out verbally. Once she goes to bed, the doubts began to crowd her mind and she voices them to you. Had you prefer she voice her concerns to OM instead of you? If you continue to react in a negative way, it is certain to happen b/c you are reinforcing her doubts.
You complain about the limbo and her depression. You would never have made it with me. Two and a half months after NC with OM was not even the tip of the iceberg for my withdrawal period. And at least you and W are having a few moments that aren't completely bad. I don't know if my H could say as much. To be completely honest, I would have to go back and read my old posts, b/c I was so depressed on top of having other health problems, that I mostly remember just being soooo miserable. Some of those daily memory accounts are beginning to fade.
You talk as if she is forcing you along on this ride. This is no picnick for her, either. Weren't you the one trying to convince her to stay in the M? Now, you talk about her tormenting you with this limbo and asking why doesn't she just let you go of she doesn't love you. That may not be far off. However, she is not forcing you to stay there. You make your own decisions, don't you?
You say when you detach you feel better but she accuses you of being cold. Well, you are either not detaching properly, or she is pulling all the strings and making the puppet dance.
You have mentioned a couple of times how you want her to be vulnerable to you. She hasn't reach that point yet, IMO. How can she be vulnerable when you can't control yourself in a r talk? It is really hard for a WAW to do that after coming from an A. I know you don't understand, based on things you have said. She has to feel completely safe emotionally, and to be honest, based on your own accounts I can see how she would feel ready.
Rzrback, she is the weaker one. You must be stronger than her....and lead her. Not by losing your cool, being sarcastic, acting cold, applying emotional pressure, or having endless R talks. None of this is working.
You have to learn to lead in a different fashion.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
How in the world do I do that w/o her knowing that I'm snooping? If there was a pattern of articles like that I'd be more concerned, but that was the only one I could find. The article itself wouldnt have been exactly encouraging to her if she were serious.
THIS is why I was pushing so hard for agreed-upon NC and full transparency. Which everyone on your thread resisted, most of all YOU.
Not sure what to tell you now. You're definitely between a rock and a hard place, and I've only said what I would personally do, and that's confront the hen leaving the chicken coop door open (albeit ajar) to the predator.
And this is why I keep saying to stop the R talks. You, Rzrback, can't control your emotions, wording, or tone of voice.......which only makes matters worse.
Frankly, when you said something about considering yourselves in piecing and having R discussions, I kind of thought it sounded like an excuse to continue the talks. It never ended. You blame her for it, but you respond in a way that doesn't set right with her and then you both are angry. Where does it get you? And why do you keep doing what isn't working?
If my H and I had had R talks as much you and W, I honestly don't know if we would have made it or not. Which seems funny when you consider that it was me that ALWAYS initiated the talks down through our marital history.
Your W sounds as if she is trying to weigh everything in her mind. But instead of silently thinking it over, she is the type who needs to hash it out verbally. Once she goes to bed, the doubts began to crowd her mind and she voices them to you. Had you prefer she voice her concerns to OM instead of you? If you continue to react in a negative way, it is certain to happen b/c you are reinforcing her doubts.
And that's where I'm having so much trouble. She never freaking wants to shut up about our R. I know they're only marginally productive when I keep my cool and totally counterproductive when I don't. When I suggest that we restrict our R talks, then I'm shutting her down, which makes her feel disconnected from me. When we have endless R talks and I'm told for the 5 millionth time how this whole situation, including her EA, is my fault , and I lose my cool, then I'm bullying her and making her feel disconnected. I feel like I'm in a giant lose-lose situation.
Quote:
You complain about the limbo and her depression. You would never have made it with me. Two and a half months after New C with OM was not even the tip of the iceberg for my withdrawal period. And at least you and W are having a few moments that aren't completely bad. I don't know if my H could say as much. To be completely honest, I would have to go back and read my old posts, b/c I was so depressed on top of having other health problems, that I mostly remember just being soooo miserable. Some of those daily memory accounts are beginning to fade.
You talk as if she is forcing you along on this ride. This is no picnick for her, either. Weren't you the one trying to convince her to stay in the M? Now, you talk about her tormenting you with this limbo and asking why doesn't she just let you go of she doesn't love you. That may not be far off. However, she is not forcing you to stay there. You make your own decisions, don't you?
I know we're just starting on this journey. I vent here because I have very few people at home I can talk to, and you on DB seem to be the only ones who understand. I want to stand for my M, but I don't have any faith that she'll stick around long enough to see the process through. She's even more impatient than I am.
Quote:
You say when you detach you feel better but she accuses you of being cold. Well, you are either not detaching properly, or she is pulling all the strings and making the puppet dance.
You have mentioned a couple of times how you want her to be vulnerable to you. She hasn't reach that point yet, IMO. How can she be vulnerable when you can't control yourself in a r talk? It is really hard for a WAW to do that after coming from an A. I know you don't understand, based on things you have said. She has to feel completely safe emotionally, and to be honest, based on your own accounts I can see how she would feel ready.
Rzrback, she is the weaker one. You must be stronger than her....and lead her. Not by losing your cool, being sarcastic, acting cold, applying emotional pressure, or having endless R talks. None of this is working.
You have to learn to lead in a different fashion.
Thank you! That's my question! How do I detach enough to be able to stay calm despite what she's throwing at me without coming off as cold? It's the last thing I want to be with her. A lot of our R talks do start off calm, but then one or both of us push a button, and it spirals. Yet I can't convince her that having endless discussions is not helping.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
Full transparency was a battle I lost. She adamantly refused (remember she still insists to this day that there was no affair because there was no sex) to provide me with access. I eventually dropped that demand because it was going nowhere, and I already had all the access I needed unbeknownst to her.
She has stuck to NC with regards to communication.
No, I don't feel like I can do anything right now. I went back 6 weeks and found nothing else like that, so it hasn't become a pattern yet. Still watching.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
