If W starts R talks is there any way of shutting them down? Validate "I see what you mean" "there may be something in what you say", "I see it differently " "let me ponder this"
Then walk away.
Normalise
GAL with W?
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Maybe a breakdown of our particular pattern is in order. During the day is close to "normal". She's not as warm as she once was, but we can talk, we spend time with the kids or doing our normal "life" things. On weekend nights we might even curl up to a movie. Things are "fine" as far as that goes...until bedtime.
When we get into bed, the lights go off, and activity cease for the day is when she crashes. Not every night, but often. The rhetoric is predictable. She feels disconnected from me and wants to feel connected to someone. That in and of itself usually starts the conversation and we will both keep things calm. But then the conversation degenerates. I have the bad habit of pointing out the good times we have had in our relationship. She'll talk about the things that are wrong as she sees them (much of which I actually agree with) and I'll point out things that I think are right between us. When I start losing my cool is when she starts blaming me for all that's wrong in our M. She still holds me responsible for her EA. She pays lip service to her role in our drifting apart, but in the end it is my fault. All of it. Granted, her rhetoric does change from day to day depending on her mindset. Sometimes she's more fair-minded and willing to listen than others.
Bottom line, she knows we're good on paper. Good friends, good parents, we do love each other, etc But she doesn't feel that "connection". When I ask her what that connection looks like to her, it basically comes down to that she doesn't feel sexually attracted to me. Se craves that sexual connection and chemistry, doesn't feel it with me and doesn't know how to get it back. Therefore she's no longer in love with me, she needs to toss me away and start over with a new man she can have that connection with. She says she WANTS to feel that way towards me, but doesn't know how to get there.
When I'm calm, I'm too detached and she says I'm cold. If I'm not calm enough, then I'm bullying her. I can't seem to find that middle ground. I've suggested restricting our R talks to the MC sessions, but that's "shutting her down" and we're sweeping things under the rug if we don't drop everything and discuss our marriage when she feels like it.
GAL activities? Scuba certification appeared on both our goal lists in MC. She's reluctant to do it at the moment because we're knocking out some debt, but that's progressing well. I'll take the lead on getting the classes set up shortly. We're also going to take a short overnight trip to a nearby city here soon. I wanted to do something that was fun, casual, without romantic pressure (she's had some anxiety about that, so jetting off to Bermuda was out :)) We'll head over, go to the aquarium, eat at a casual seafood restaurant, spend the night, have a nice brunch somewhere, and head home.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
Now that I have read your recent post, it seems that nighttime around bedtime are triggers for emotional R talks. To head off those talks, you might want to take a look at the most recent updated Validation: Cheat Sheet for pointers on emotional aikido. This way, you can use those techniques to diffuse the "emotional, hot-button" R talks that goes nowhere.
Also it would not hurt to ask W, "How do you propose that we do about this issue (i.e. lack of connection)? How can I help out in this regard? Any ideas?"
"Well, that's nice of you!" Really? What am I, a friendly acquaintance?
Easy does it! (See? I use exclamation points all the time.) Correct usage? No, but maybe she was trying to show her pleased feelings through a text....which if very hard to do!!! Then, maybe she wasn't, but why go off like a cannon? It's just as easy to think she like it, rather than think she was being nasty.
Just calm down or you will never pass your part of the test.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Oh, I'm sure she liked it. I don't think she was being nasty at all. It just seemed like an 'arms-length' response...something you'd say to a neighbor who brought the newspaper up to your door. I'm sure I'm just over-sensitive on these things. I'm not mad about it and I'll never mention it to her, it just seemed odd, even in our sitch.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
The most telling part when you texted her, was when you lingered to see if she responded to your "ILY". When she didn't, you should have said nothing, instead of coming back with " well anyway", b/c that told off on ya. Do you see what I mean? To me, it appeared you were waiting for her to give you some kind of positive feedback for texting her. Like you were waiting for her to, at the least, respond with, "ILY too!!". Was it your W, or another one I'm thinking about, that said you always wanted "more". If so, that is going to continue being rough for you until she can give more.
Yes, you are way too sensitive. Which, you have a right to be, however, you are your own worst enemy at the moment.
This morning I wrote a long post to you, but then decided not to send it. After I read Vanilla & Wonka's post, I thought their advice was best. You would have to be waaaay too cool, calm & collected to do what I had in mind. (I'm talking Starsky cool, here. ) Oh yeah, and ready to turn lose, like you claim. You just aren't there yet.
You live in a "reaction" stage to her, and that just won't cut it. It may have something to do with why she thinks you go from one extreme of coldness to the other extreme of bullying. Try to find an even keel.
You wanted to know how to communicate without talking? I'd start through actions.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Well, no, she responded to my ILY with her own right away. I was just a little taken aback by the 'Well, that's nice of you'. Just seemed a little more distant than even I've been used to out of her since BD. I think the 'more' comment applied to someone else.
You're right - it was an attempt to engage her a little bit, just a quick "See, I do think of you, and I want to connect, even in small ways"
She could have just been busy at the time. There's any number of perfectly legitimate reasons for her being less than chatty at that particular time.
And yes, I know I'm not anywhere near Starsky's level of cool yet. I'm not nearly as detached as I thought I was, and the last couple of weeks have proven that. I will feel good and strong until I'm with her and she's in one of her emotional crashes. I do react to her far more than I should. I think it's because I can't seem to get off that defensiveness hamster wheel. I DO feel responsible for a lot of our situation (outside her EA), so it's easy for her, whether she consciously knows it or not, to keep me on a string.
I'd love to hear your insight on actions I could take, besides keeping my cool.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
) Oh yeah, and ready to turn lose, like you claim. You just aren't there yet.