^^ that right there is the key to being truly heard. We all have an intrinsic need to be heard by loved ones...especially the spouse because it is the glue that really bonds a couple at the emotional level. It seems that, from what W said up there, that you two have had some Bickerson's bickering in the M relationship....true? If you say "yes", then I'd suggest that you find better ways of communicating that is respectful and honors the other person's point of view.
I feel like we had many calm conversations over the years. Of course, we also had many that spiraled out of control - hence her comment. In this past year (that i have been in counseling) things improved greatly, but in my thread i mention how it seemed as though as i got better and more able to speak calmly, she was the one who went more out of control. Then she associated me with her anger and losing control and said i bring out the worst in her.
Even now the few times she's called it feels like she is baiting to try and get an argument going. My IC said it seems like arguing or being upset was where the balance of communication was, and that by me being calm she is moved off center and doesn't know how to react. Thus she gets angrier and angrier as I try to validate her feelings.
and my comments about 'magic cures' and 'silver bullets' wasn't about DB or DR techniques. I know I'm not trying to trick her back into liking me and that the GALing is for my benefit. It was more about ways to behave in the mediation meeting I had on that Monday. I was just hoping for ideas or stories that other people used in their situation.
But thank you for the reply Wonka, as always it is greatly appreciated.
M36,W34 T18 years M9 years D3,D6 W "doesn't want to be married anymore"6/14/15 ILYBNILWY6/2015 W moves to parents house 6/30/15 W removes wedding band 7/3/15 My ring back on 8/8/15 Served 8/11/2015.
Came across this level-headed article recently in Redbook by a man who has been married to his wife for 12 years. A good read for newbies and other DBers to file away in the back of their minds.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 12 Lessons Learned In 12 Years Of Marriage
We were married before I graduated college. Pregnant with our first child shortly after. I finished college. New baby. Two miscarriages. Four more children.When the youngest was born, we had five children under 8 years old. Owned four homes. Rented a house and an apartment somewhere in between. Five different jobs with four different companies. Lived in four cities. In many ways, life has been on fast-forward. We've been drinking from a fire hose. In the course of these 12 years, we've learned a great deal. About ourselves. About each other. About the importance of marriage. And why it's worth fighting for. We were young, in love and ready for marriage when we said yes in our early twenties. But that doesn't necessarily mean we were prepared.12 years later, here are 12 things that have been clarified for us in our marriage:
1. 50/50 expectations lead to disappointment. For a season, we viewed marriage like it was a game. A competition. If I do this, you should do that. Meet me in the middle here, do a little more there. If you do 20 things, I'll do 20. That sort of game. But the true work is done when one of you can't get to the middle. When it's up to the other to go the extra mile. Maybe that ratio is 90/10 for a season if a spouse is sick, stressed, even depressed. Don't view marriage as a scorecard, someone always loses that way.
2. Keep adventure alive. In my early days of dating Brooke, I pulled out all the stops. We went on long hikes, I made her candlelit dinners, I worked hard at the chase. When the years and responsibilities piled up, I let that fire die too many times. Fighting to keep adventure alive doesn't have to look like a trip to Paris; it could be a last-minute trip to a local hotel, a surprise baby sitter for the evening or even a simple handwritten note. Inject your marriage with adventure.
3. Kiss each other first. I'm imperfect at this, but I try to kiss Brooke first when I get home from work. Before I kiss our five kids. It's a small thing that points to a much bigger reality. For me to be a great dad, I have to be a great husband first. Otherwise, we'll become roommates who are collectively raising our kids.
4. Grit is often the best description of love. It was easy to love Brooke when we were newlyweds. Easy for her to love me during seasons of comfort. But it's much more difficult to fight for love when you lose a baby. Or have a huge financial setback. Or confess a really ugly secret about yourself. Fairy tales are great for movies, but real life is more often confusing, chaotic and messy. Dig in when it gets hard.
5. Real life happens in the mundane. Huge promotions, babies being born, buying the dream house. The peaks of marriage are great. However, most days are mundane. I've been guilty of missing the little moments while I work to make the big ones happen. I'm realizing that life happens in those little moments. I'm learning to love the journey every bit as much as the destination.
6. Proximity doesn't equal presence. Getting home from work early, getting a sitter for a date and even taking a vacation alone are all great things. But physically being close isn't the same as being close emotionally. For me, most of the time that looks like staring at my iPhone instead of looking my wife in the eye. Being more concerned with my Twitter or Instagram feed than I am about hearing my wife's heart. When you have the ability to be together physically, be there emotionally as well.
7. Comparison will kill your joy. In an age of edited facades of other people's lives on Facebook and other outlets, it's easy to feel like your marriage suucks. Like you're getting lapped by the Jones family. When I begin to compare our money, house, kids' performance and marriage to others through a distant lens, I'm the one that loses. It robs my joy. There will always be others with more; don't play that game.
8. You'll each have the opportunity to throw it away. We all know the marriages that end in pain instead of celebration. Divorce instead of dancing at the 50th anniversary party. Brooke and I are realizing that some days it's far easier to give up than keep fighting. But each day, we keep choosing each other. We continue to be honest about where we fail each other. Because it's worth it.
9. Take initiative for the benefit of the other. We talk often in our family about whether we're being givers or takers. Are we giving and serving? Or are we only taking and using? I'd argue that life is best lived when you're giving yourself away for the benefit of another.
10. Live in community. Marriage is hard and messy, but also beautiful and redeeming. Lived in isolation, you may be tempted to give up. But when surrounded with friends and family that know your strengths as well as your struggles, you realize you have support and encouragement.
11. Will you forgive me? Let's face it; in marriage, we fail each other more often than we'd like to admit. We tell a white lie, we forget a huge appointment, we get angry. There are a million other examples. Instead of shifting blame or dodging responsibility, marriages get stronger when you start to say "will you forgive me?" Even more than an "I'm sorry," this question leads to restoration and healing.
12. Love wins. This list could be a mile long. I didn't touch on things like honesty, making time for dates and speaking highly of your spouse. But all the lists in the world won't keep your marriage strong if it lacks love. In the end, love wins. It conquers all. It removes doubt. It pushes through fear. It invites deeper purpose. Love wins.
That was a nice post ILYNOT that was originally posted by Wonka. So many valid points to consider. I wish often that there were things like that I could share with my spouse just to get him thinking. But I know the time is not right yet. I still have hope that one day I can share an article like that and use it as a tool for some open discussion. If not with him maybe in another relationship down the road..
Married 1991 D 32 GD 12 D 30 GD 3 S 29 M 58 S 57 1st bomb 2008 2nd bomb 4/2015 same person New bomb 09/24 I fear those big words which make us so unhappy.
Came across this level-headed article recently in Redbook by a man who has been married to his wife for 12 years. A good read for newbies and other DBers to file away in the back of their minds.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 12 Lessons Learned In 12 Years Of Marriage
We were married before I graduated college. Pregnant with our first child shortly after. I finished college. New baby. Two miscarriages. Four more children.When the youngest was born, we had five children under 8 years old. Owned four homes. Rented a house and an apartment somewhere in between. Five different jobs with four different companies. Lived in four cities. In many ways, life has been on fast-forward. We've been drinking from a fire hose. In the course of these 12 years, we've learned a great deal. About ourselves. About each other. About the importance of marriage. And why it's worth fighting for. We were young, in love and ready for marriage when we said yes in our early twenties. But that doesn't necessarily mean we were prepared.12 years later, here are 12 things that have been clarified for us in our marriage:
1. 50/50 expectations lead to disappointment. For a season, we viewed marriage like it was a game. A competition. If I do this, you should do that. Meet me in the middle here, do a little more there. If you do 20 things, I'll do 20. That sort of game. But the true work is done when one of you can't get to the middle. When it's up to the other to go the extra mile. Maybe that ratio is 90/10 for a season if a spouse is sick, stressed, even depressed. Don't view marriage as a scorecard, someone always loses that way.
2. Keep adventure alive. In my early days of dating Brooke, I pulled out all the stops. We went on long hikes, I made her candlelit dinners, I worked hard at the chase. When the years and responsibilities piled up, I let that fire die too many times. Fighting to keep adventure alive doesn't have to look like a trip to Paris; it could be a last-minute trip to a local hotel, a surprise baby sitter for the evening or even a simple handwritten note. Inject your marriage with adventure.
3. Kiss each other first. I'm imperfect at this, but I try to kiss Brooke first when I get home from work. Before I kiss our five kids. It's a small thing that points to a much bigger reality. For me to be a great dad, I have to be a great husband first. Otherwise, we'll become roommates who are collectively raising our kids.
4. Grit is often the best description of love. It was easy to love Brooke when we were newlyweds. Easy for her to love me during seasons of comfort. But it's much more difficult to fight for love when you lose a baby. Or have a huge financial setback. Or confess a really ugly secret about yourself. Fairy tales are great for movies, but real life is more often confusing, chaotic and messy. Dig in when it gets hard.
5. Real life happens in the mundane. Huge promotions, babies being born, buying the dream house. The peaks of marriage are great. However, most days are mundane. I've been guilty of missing the little moments while I work to make the big ones happen. I'm realizing that life happens in those little moments. I'm learning to love the journey every bit as much as the destination.
6. Proximity doesn't equal presence. Getting home from work early, getting a sitter for a date and even taking a vacation alone are all great things. But physically being close isn't the same as being close emotionally. For me, most of the time that looks like staring at my iPhone instead of looking my wife in the eye. Being more concerned with my Twitter or Instagram feed than I am about hearing my wife's heart. When you have the ability to be together physically, be there emotionally as well.
7. Comparison will kill your joy. In an age of edited facades of other people's lives on Facebook and other outlets, it's easy to feel like your marriage suucks. Like you're getting lapped by the Jones family. When I begin to compare our money, house, kids' performance and marriage to others through a distant lens, I'm the one that loses. It robs my joy. There will always be others with more; don't play that game.
8. You'll each have the opportunity to throw it away. We all know the marriages that end in pain instead of celebration. Divorce instead of dancing at the 50th anniversary party. Brooke and I are realizing that some days it's far easier to give up than keep fighting. But each day, we keep choosing each other. We continue to be honest about where we fail each other. Because it's worth it.
9. Take initiative for the benefit of the other. We talk often in our family about whether we're being givers or takers. Are we giving and serving? Or are we only taking and using? I'd argue that life is best lived when you're giving yourself away for the benefit of another.
10. Live in community. Marriage is hard and messy, but also beautiful and redeeming. Lived in isolation, you may be tempted to give up. But when surrounded with friends and family that know your strengths as well as your struggles, you realize you have support and encouragement.
11. Will you forgive me? Let's face it; in marriage, we fail each other more often than we'd like to admit. We tell a white lie, we forget a huge appointment, we get angry. There are a million other examples. Instead of shifting blame or dodging responsibility, marriages get stronger when you start to say "will you forgive me?" Even more than an "I'm sorry," this question leads to restoration and healing.
12. Love wins. This list could be a mile long. I didn't touch on things like honesty, making time for dates and speaking highly of your spouse. But all the lists in the world won't keep your marriage strong if it lacks love. In the end, love wins. It conquers all. It removes doubt. It pushes through fear. It invites deeper purpose. Love wins.
Simply amazing. thank you!
Amazing post. I couldn't agree more.
Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2 M - 8/2008 W is not happy - 1/2014 W wants D - 9/2014 W moved out - 11/2014 D filed - 1/23/2015 D'ed - 2/25/2015 Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
Validate his/her feelings, let his/her know you agree with him/her when that is true, but avoid criticism when you don't agree. you don't have to pretend to agree if you think he/she's wrong, but you can say it in a diplomatic way, like "I think differently, but I understand your reasons for feeling that way." (and then don't continue to argue about it.)
Reading this is timely for me. I've been struggling today with my not agreeing with my husband's reasons for something and his disappointment in me for that. But I have been thinking about it all day and realized that I have my own reasons for the same shared goal and they are reasons that should make me happy and him too and so I plan to tell him that. It doesn't matter if our reasons are the same as long as the goals are.
This page is so intriguing. I can't wait to read more on all of this. Quick question- I just joined today. I put up a very short intro when I first logged on, then later realized I should have posted more about my story, so I took an hour and poured my heart out- but now I don't see it. Did I write too much as a newcomer? LOL.
M-60 H-51 M-14 years BD 12/26/16 S 1/1/17
"First the pain, then the rising." Glennon Doyle Melton
Hi everyone, so since Nov, 0 physical contact, he doesn`t come near me on the few times I see him! And last week comes in the house ( to make boxes ) and gives me the kisses on eash cheek! Thought I would die. Monstered a bit about the newspapers Stupid stuff, Really hurts! He tried this again yesterday, and I put up my hand to stop him approaching me, told him that he is sending mixed signals, and that`s not fair! Better for all to keep their distance! H still living with OW, Divorce will be final soon!
Me 51 H 52 OW39 M 22 years Together 26 BD nov 2016 H living with OW Feb 2017
