I think my XH and your W are the same person. My X spent a good deal of time during our final goodbye telling me what a wonderful, amazing, incredible wife I am and how I should look for someone else because not looking for love would deny some lucky man of having me. I wanted to ask why HE no longer cared to be that lucky man, but I just let it go and laughed at the irony. UGH! You are a good man, living "as if"...that takes incredible strength on your part. Sounds like your attitude is in a really good place and I am proud for you.
Me 52, H53 Bomb drop 9/29/2014 Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014 Marriage #2 12/31/2019 5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships) 6 grandkids
Thanks Dawn; I love reading your posts. You're inspiring me!
I don't know how much of it is strength, or if I'm just tired of being afraid. I feel good now, but I also know she hasn't tested me in the last few days. She floated the idea of a trial S last Sunday after we had a rough Saturday night....I was surprised to find myself actually considering the idea. Would have fought her tooth and nail on that a couple of months ago, just out of sheer terror that she would decide she was happier without me. It hasn't come back up in the last couple of days, but you never know.
It's confusing as can be. When my W is in a good mental state she acknowledges how great I am (did that not sound a bit arrogant?). When she's in a bad state, well, then I'm the source of all her problems. Sometimes I just want to shake her and say "If I'm such a great guy, why are you doing this???" At least she doesn't pull the "I need a real man" crap she did in the beginning.
I do feel that she's trying. I can see differences in her behavior and rhetoric that tell me she really wants to try and work things out. She's terrified of being alone, whereas I am mostly not. The problem as I see it is that her idea of success, achieving that mysterious "connection" is so undefinable I don't know if we'll ever really get there. How do I know we're good? Is she going to announce it to me?
Several things had to come together for me to get to where I am. The shock and awe of the whole thing finally wore off. More recently I lost the fear of being alone and started even acknowledging that it was a little tempting. Had some nice (casual, innocent) interactions with several attractive women that boosted my confidence in that area. I started to take a big picture view of my sitch, that it's the 2x4 I needed to overcome my inertia and get back on my game as a man. I was autopiloting a lot of areas in my life, both personal and professional. I feel different in so many ways. I was recently sent a picture of myself from an event just last summer and I felt like I didn't even recognize the guy...thank God!
I ran across a motivational speech by a Florida high school football coach called "I am a champion". It's on Google, like everything else. The speech itself doesn't fit perfectly, since it's about football, not marriage, but some of the lines really spoke to me. I listen to that speech almost every morning.
Last edited by Rzrback; 03/18/1506:00 PM.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
She's worried that we don't have enough in common to sustain us after the kids leave. I'm a little worried about that too; it seems like right now if we don't talk about our R, we don't have much to talk about.
I did not suffer the empty nest syndrome. My H and I had had someone living in the house with us since the day we were M, so to finally have just the two of us was wonderful. We loved it! It just didn't last very long. Kids just leave home, go multiply and come back with additions.
Since you can presently recognize the difficulty that could be in the future, which is finding something in common apart from the kids and having a R talk.......now is the time to begin changing that direction. Find something you both love doing as a hobby, fun activity, project, volunteering, etc.
She's not helping herself by worrying about these things in the future, however, it is part of that filtering she has to do. I honestly don't know how you stay as patient as you are with her. It would drive me crazy to hear that same old tune playing over and over.
She has to actually make some effort, herself, in this MR. It's as if she is just there pondering over the same old issues and looking at you to "prove" to her this can work. You must feel like a defense attorney at trial.
To her, she probably feels she is doing all she can at the moment. I know that's how I felt. And also, I have to remember we are just hearing your side of it. You are doing good. Just steer away from those R talks.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I would have said to W in the following scenarios:
W: Can't get over the OM...blah blah....
Rzr: I am not having this conversation. You know where I stand on this subject. walk away
W: I can't take it anymore. Let's do a trial S or separate.
Rzr: Yeah, I agree....that's the best idea ever. Let's do it. You can move out because it seems when things get too difficult, you want to separate every single time as if it is the only solution.
I am with Sandi. You two need to explore NEW things and expand your horizons as a couple. Why don't you take the initiative and sign up for a cooking class that you & W can go together at a local college/continuing education course?
The problem as I see it is that her idea of success, achieving that mysterious "connection" is so undefinable I don't know if we'll ever really get there. How do I know we're good? Is she going to announce it to me?
Your wife REALLY needs to gain a better understanding of the difference between limerence and true, sustaining, mature love. You two are 21 years in, and if she's still looking for the former, she's going to find her feelings towards you forever lacking somehow, and the next "adventure" just around the bend with someone else.
My greatest concern for you is not the current OM, but rather this lack of introspection and emotional maturity in your wife. Because unless she comes to terms with it, you're just going to be staring down the barrel of OM2 and OM3 down the road, I'm afraid.
Has MC discussed this with her at all? Even better would be if she'd have a really good IC dig deep with her about it.
I did not suffer the empty nest syndrome. My H and I had had someone living in the house with us since the day we were M, so to finally have just the two of us was wonderful. We loved it! It just didn't last very long. Kids just leave home, go multiply and come back with additions.
Since you can presently recognize the difficulty that could be in the future, which is finding something in common apart from the kids and having a R talk.......now is the time to begin changing that direction. Find something you both love doing as a hobby, fun activity, project, volunteering, etc.
I would agree. We actually do have several things in common...film, travel, for example. We've talked about some other things, like scuba certification. She's depressed enough right now that nothing sounds interesting. That'll come later.
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She's not helping herself by worrying about these things in the future, however, it is part of that filtering she has to do. I honestly don't know how you stay as patient as you are with her. It would drive me crazy to hear that same old tune playing over and over.
She has to actually make some effort, herself, in this MR. It's as if she is just there pondering over the same old issues and looking at you to "prove" to her this can work. You must feel like a defense attorney at trial.
Sandi, you continue to amaze me. That's exactly what's happening...same stuff, different day. The songs never change, and I'm sitting there pointing out the good stuff in our R, which the bad habit I'm trying to kick. There's been some times where it was good that the room was dark so she couldn't see my eyes roll. We're a decade from being empty nesters, for pete's sake. I think we'll figure out whether things are repairable between us long before that.
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To her, she probably feels she is doing all she can at the moment. I know that's how I felt. And also, I have to remember we are just hearing your side of it. You are doing good. Just steer away from those R talks.
You're right, you're only hearing my side, but it's the correct side She's got plenty of legitimate complaints about me, too....I haven't always been the husband she needed, for sure. She's not as eager to R talk as she used to be. It feels good to finally start shutting down the R talks when they get "spewy" and to minimize them when they're not. I finally figured out that staying cool and positive (I've been trying to channel Matthew McConaughey) keeps the R talks short and, if not sweet, at least tolerable.
Last edited by Rzrback; 03/18/1506:38 PM.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
Your wife REALLY needs to gain a better understanding of the difference between limerence and true, sustaining, mature love. You two are 21 years in, and if she's still looking for the former, she's going to find her feelings towards you forever lacking somehow, and the next "adventure" just around the bend with someone else.
My greatest concern for you is not the current OM, but rather this lack of introspection and emotional maturity in your wife. Because unless she comes to terms with it, you're just going to be staring down the barrel of OM2 and OM3 down the road, I'm afraid.
I'm afraid of that too. The term "emotional maturity" just does not fit with my W. She can sit there and rationally know that he probably lied to her about his marriage, that infidelity is just how he rolls, that he's a user who saw her rocky marriage as an opportunity for his own gratification, and she still says she's struggling to get over him. Her rhetoric is that she's an emotionally driven person, and she can't seem to get her head to overrule her heart.
She knows that I'm a great match for her on paper, but she doesn't "feel" it, and that's what really counts to her. Otherwise she's resigning herself to a lukewarm relationship with me. My eyes are rolling just writing this crap.
Quote:
Has MC discussed this with her at all? Even better would be if she'd have a really good IC dig deep with her about it.
I've been generally happy with our MC, but this has been a disappointment for me. She has brought this up but not very forcefully IMHO. My W has shot down the idea of IC numerous times.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
I would have said to W in the following scenarios:
W: Can't get over the OM...blah blah....
Rzr: I am not having this conversation. You know where I stand on this subject. walk away
W: I can't take it anymore. Let's do a trial S or separate.
Rzr: Yeah, I agree....that's the best idea ever. Let's do it. You can move out because it seems when things get too difficult, you want to separate every single time as if it is the only solution.
I am with Sandi. You two need to explore NEW things and expand your horizons as a couple. Why don't you take the initiative and sign up for a cooking class that you & W can go together at a local college/continuing education course?
Just do it.
I'm waiting for the next time she brings up OM. I was able to shut things down last time and the world did not implode. Maybe I have a taste for it now.
I was thinking scuba, but yeah, I think it's time.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
You are doing good. Just steer away from those R talks.
She's got plenty of legitimate complaints about me, too....I haven't always been the husband she needed, for sure. She's not as eager to R talk as she used to be. It feels good to finally start shutting down the R talks when they get "spewy" and to minimize them when they're not. I finally figured out that staying cool and positive (I've been trying to channel Matthew McConaughey) keeps the R talks short and, if not sweet, at least tolerable.