She felt like the M was ending, but she wasn't ready to accept it. So she was telling herself "we'll work through it", etc, etc.
But she had another voice telling herself "this won't work, I'm not happy, I want more, it will never get better", etc.
She vocalized the positive voice around you...but in the end she believed the other voice.
Yep, I've unfortunately had the same thing happen to me. In my case, this all came right after I confronted her about OM, which I didn't know about during BD. At this time, OM wasn't working out, she had second thoughts but I think she wasn't over OM. It was 'new' enough being away from me that it was liberating for her she then blamed her being away from me on now being 'happy.' Well, I didn't bite too much, but like go go, I think her words were the right words, the time was bad. As Sandi has said, timing is everything. Now I see the 'happy' away is not really 'happy' for her and she's struggling to find the next excuse why she doesn't want to do the work. I'm going to need the right words and 'see' the change in her before there's any Chance of me taking her back.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Do not sound like some pitiful victim that has been booted out of his M. Sound like a guy who is single and is discovering it's not too bad!
This advice makes sense and like much DB doesn't come naturally.
Maybe I am done. I am all for standing for my M, but my WW has made her choices and I have no interest in playing games to try to jolt her out of a phase and win her back. She choose other men, alcohol, and a wayward lifestyle over me. That's her journey now. I'm not really interested in giving her enough influence over me to impact how I act around her. It would be on her to prove to me that it's worth giving her the time of day again, not the other way around.
That's not to say I won't do 180s for ME, and that I haven't learned from my mistakes. But they aren't to chase after someone that won't treat me in a way I am ok with.
As for that attitude in general...I don't know that I feel I'm a "victim"...but I don't feel the need to pretend that I didn't incur a devastating loss. Yes, I'll go on and appreciate what God gave me. I'm doing well in my life and will be ok. But I believe in M, I don't believe in D, and I feel acting like "meh, I'm single, party!" doesn't fit my character and beliefs. Again, if this doesn't woo back a WW then she is free to stay gone. Maybe someone will appreciate what I offer some day, maybe not. But this is who I am.
Last edited by Zues126; 03/19/1506:10 AM.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Yes, I would LOVE to see Sandi expound upon a "Letting Them Back Too Easy?" theme, from her unique FWW perspective.
We have to consider the makeup of the wayward mindset. In my simple breakdown, I would say there are 3 main veins that run to the wayward heart/mind. Those 3 are Resentment, Disrespect, and Rebellion. If you have ever experienced dealing with these feelings yourself, or dealt with another person who had them......you know it takes a lot of work to resolve those feelings completely.
Even if she is willing and trying to come to terms with it, the emotion and flashbacks that caused the resentment, still want to creep around inside her head. And there are trigger points that can set it into a beinge effect. If she has allowed herself to be controlled by her emotions (which, of course, waywards do) then it will prove to be very challenging for her and the H, just in different ways. However, I am a firm believer that it can be accomplished, if the WW wants to let go of it badly enough. Sadly, many don't want to turn lose of anger or whatever seems to control them at the moment, as crazy as that sounds. It requires a lot of self discipline, and which we know WW's have very little. Intellectually, they know they should do everything in their power to get rid of it. But what will it take to give them that "want to" get rid of it? That is the question that leads back to the H not being able to force her what to feel. However, he can certainly influence!
I wish I knew how to explain the dynamics in the female - male relationship. Then perhaps I could better explain why her respect for the H is vitally important, and how that respect, or disrespect, affects their entire MR. It definately affects her feelings for him (and I will get back to this in a second). If a man allows his WW back into the MR........knowing he does not have her respect, he will never be appreciated, much less admired. Unless she simply fakes it, she can't admire him. Those dynamics would also better explain why she has the rebellious attitude with him, as though she were a teenager and he was the parent. It is a very complex relationship and it leaves the H completely baffled with why she would say and do some of the things she does in her wayward state.
LBH's should not let her back too easily, with no questions, no discussions or decisions. He had better have a plan and have an agreement from her to cooperate 100% with his plan before he evers says they can reconcile......then hold her to it. Rug sweeping is no solution, period. It makes matters worse, so that route needs to be taken off the table immediately. Neither can the H "nice" her out of her waywardness. This is where I think some of the LBW's here on the board may have a problem with some of the tough love advice. B/c they would love it if their bad H was nice, especially if he had been abusive. However, these ladies are not wayward, and that's the main difference. I am telling you it does not work with a wayward woman. It stems from those three areas......resentment, disrespect, and rebellion.
There are some things that time eventually heals, but I personally do not believe time, alone, can heal matters of this nature. Time, coupled with good counseling can help with a big part. However, before a woman can begin to resolve these problems, she has to be willing to work at leaning how to let go of the past and stop blaming her H for everything. in her frame of mind, I believe she has to have some type of guidance from an unbiased source........and preferably, professional. I don't mean attending MC with her H, either. She first needs help just for herself. If she has a spiritual leader, I would recommend spiritual counseling, b/c these are matters of the heart. Once she begins to deal honestly with her feelings......and is seeking to learn new skills, the couple stands such a better chance at reconciling. And then the couple should attend a good MC or a highly recommended M program, support groups or something that will help guide them through Piecing. Just leaving a couple to figure it out on their own is not the healthiest of choices. The main ingredient there is willingness from both sides.
I believe a woman cannot hold on to these three issues toward her H and/or the M, and have a warm, loving, sexual desire for him. These strong, negative feelings will surface almost daily in some sort of fashion. Some women may be HD enough they will want the act of sex, but they use the man as if he were some type of object in order for her to receive pleasure. Some women may play along and just tolerate the sex, but she doesn't feel the attraction and desire for him. And that's not to mention those who use sex as a way to manipulate the H. She may go through the act of ML, but that's all it will be. I can't give any scientific proof, IJMHO, that it is impossible for a woman to have that kind of inner contempt for her H.......and be able to feel attraction/desire for him. I believe that is the true source for a lot of SSM.
She has to find appropriate means to help her resolve this mindset in order to have peace within herself. By that, I mean her meeting with her new friends at the bar is not the guidance she should receive to resolve her bad feelings. Even if she were to move on to another relationship, this mindset toward her H, consequently affects her ability to have complete contentment in her life, IMO. She may try to ignore it, deny it, and act otherwise......but it still lives in her heart and it is a dark, cold leach that [censored] away at the core of her spirit. So, just imagine how it would be for the LBH to allow his WW to return to the MR too easily, instead of her doing the necessary work, first.
When or if a LBH lets his WW back into the MR too easily, it is comparable to dismissing someone who is pregnant. She is pregnant and must go through a laboring process. (The pregnancy/labor metaphor is applicable to many things. I used it in the last thread illustrating Piecing the M back.) In the pregnancy stages, the H notices when things become uncomfortable for her, she is grouchy, complains, nothing suits her, etc. Her hormones are wacky, so she does some weird and out of character stuff. The H usually does whatever he can to make things easier for her. In time, she starts to experience contractions, and things go into high gear. She may, or may not, turn to a professional for help. The labor can be long and agonizing, and most H's wish there was just something he could do to take her pain away. His role during that time should be to show her he is emotionally strong, stable, and confident. She doesn't need to see him crying or begging her for anything. He doesn't show her how afraid he really feels. He doesn't start acting like a crazy person and screaming along with her, or reacting to her contractions. He doesn't even get upset when she screams, "This is all your fault. I will never let you touch me again".
This may not have been the greatest anology off the top of my head, but I hope some of you will see that the main message here is to let her go through the labor process. The H is making a bad mistake to let her back into the MR without her doing some work on herself. Why would a man want a woman to be with him and have those terrible feelings toward him? There are no short-cuts and those unresolved feelings will surface!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I am astounded at how very REAL these posts are. I have been struggling for years with the wife not respecting or appreciating all that i have done. She is finally starting to recognize what i do, but still so very little appreciation. I am convinced she (along with so many in our families) have Irish Alzheimers, meaning they forget everything, but a grudge. The fact is she NEVER ever can let things go. She knows it and still cannot help it. It certainly has contributed in making things hard on us.
Thanks Toots, I appreciate your support and encouragent. I have been asked about the male version in the past, but I am very hesitant to speak on behalf of the WH. I thought maybe a former WH would pop in here one day and help us out. We have had LBH'S to admit to cheating in their M, but they never spoke of their wayward mindset. I only remember one man starting a thread who referred to himself as the cheater or adulterer, but he didn't stay very long, and I don't recall him ever talking about the specifics, the way I have tried to bring out about the WW. He just sounded so sad and unhappy, as if his W was punishing him by making him tell his story.
I actually wrote out a post in response to your request, then I thought, "Meh, what do I know?" (ha). It was a long one, too, if you can believe it. .
Seriously, I believe there are some differences b/c of the dynamics and complexity in the husband - wife relationship. I just don't know that I could do a very satisfactory job at explaining it. It would be, after all, mostly my personal VP. Since I have never been a wayward husband, all I have is what I've read over the years, and observed in others.........and my memory isn't worth much for book references.
If I knew how to give short advice, (ahem) I would say the same advice basically applies to both sexes.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I sincerely appreciate your honesty and sincerity regarding this subject. I would love your perspective in my particular situation, as well as most recent developments. Everyone thus far, including myself, agrees that I need to drop the rope and get a lawyer, and that my WW has no intention of returning anytime soon.
I see what is in front of me, but am so scared to miss any little shred of hope. My problem is that I keep seeing her as she was vs how she currently is.
Me M51 WW F46 T 17 yrs M 16 yrs 9 children D29 D27 D26 S24 S24 S19 S19 niece18 S17 8 grandchildren ILYBINILWY: 12/15/14 I discover PA 12/31/14 She files D: 1/9/15 She moves out 3/2/15 D papers served 3/18/15
Just The labor can be long and agonizing, and most H's wish there was just something he could do to take her pain away. His role during that time should be to show her he is emotionally strong, stable, and confident. She doesn't need to see him crying or begging her for anything. He doesn't show her how afraid he really feels. He doesn't start acting like a crazy person and screaming along with her, or reacting to her contractions. He doesn't even get upset when she screams, "This is all your fault. I will never let you touch me
Always helps to read your perspective and anologies, which I think fits well. I get caught up with trying to identify what my wife is over and over (WAW/depressed W/WW) or some combination of all 3 and think I need to be doing something. I need to just let go and stop trying/wanting to control the outcome.
I also keep wanting W to come back too fast and I know that can have a bad outcome. Deep down I know if she does come back and it's not done right I may be the WAH/WH later down the road, which terrifies me more.
Last edited by Fogg; 03/19/1510:11 PM.
Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
"Really! Surprisingly, I have made it much better than I would have thought"
In other words, "Surprisingly, I have handled getting along without you easier than I thought I would have" ?
Me:33 W:34 T:13 M:8.5 D mentioned & S 2/13/15 "We can never get back together" 4/2/15 Visited & Mentioned she hasn't filed 4/20/15 "I want to have cats back" 5/4/15 Served D papers 5/8/15
