Starsky, it's all three. It starts out about her depression and hopelessness in general, then it goes into her connection with him and how frustrated she is that she can't find it with me. I tell her she just needs to work through it and it takes time.
She alternates between respectful and spew. I can't keep up.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
For the most part, this is on her to figure out. And as much as you want to show support, you are very limited in what you can do. I think I have asked this before but can't remember, has the C explained to your W about the withdrawals, doubts, confused feelings, and fear of uncertainty? Has she explained this is all normal and has nothing to do with love for the OM?
Some of the details, time slots, etc., during my withdrawal is a little fuzzy after all these years. Of course I don't dwell on it, so that may be why. I remember how I felt and the depression and panic attacks, etc. However, I did not talk about feelings for OM to my H. Just b/c that's what I did is no measuring stick for another WW, I'm just expressing thoughts here. I read a lot of books, and it helped me cope. I still had weak moments, but I was able to comprehend what was happening to me, once I received the information. However, if I had not cut all manner of contact with OM.........I could be telling a different story. It would have been a lengthy emotional hell to endure. In that regard, I can feel for your W. I was told right here on the board what was coming, and AmyC (former WW) & imlyn (former LBW) held my hand a few times off the board. So, yes I understand the need for support.
To me, it just doesn't seem right for her to discuss her feelings about OM to you, and for sure, not verbally compare her feelings for you with those for OM. It may sound crazy to say it seems disrespectful (considering how disrespectful an A is) but it continues to inflict pain on you to hear this. Would it not be better for her to meet with the MC alone a few times, rather than continue to rehash this with you?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I did end up having to cut off the conversation a couple of times. Ironically, I'm the person she instinctively wants to go to when she's upset.
The boundary for me gets hit when she starts talking about her feelings for OM or, as what happened this weekend, she starts openly worrying about her dating prospects. She's sitting there telling her husband that she's worried about being too old (at 43!) and too busy to meet someone!
The two times that happened this weekend, I shut the conversation down. Saturday night was a knock down drag out argument; it got so heated that the next morning she floated the idea of a trial separation, something I'm considering. Sunday was far calmer and more respectful, at least until she started worrying about her dating prospects. At that point I told her (kept it calm) that when she did that it was completely disrespectful and we needed to stop talking before things got out of hand. I do recall telling her that if she wanted to be single again I'd respect her decision, but it also meant that I wouldn't give a flip about her man troubles. Fortunately I was already on my way to meet a student so I could remove myself from the situation without it seeming that I was abandoning. W seemed to respond well; that evening she was warmer and more affectionate than she had been with me in weeks.
In MC today the therapist did tell her that it was normal for her to feel her panic, confusion and hopelessness while she's grieving. She related it (I thought this was brilliant) to when my W's father died. After the initial shock, my W would seemingly do OK and then crash for no particular reason. That seemed to resonate with her.
We have discussed W meeting with the therapist alone, but neither one of us remembered to mention it in session.
Last edited by Rzrback; 03/16/1509:28 PM.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
Starsky, it's all three. It starts out about her depression and hopelessness in general, then it goes into her connection with him and how frustrated she is that she can't find it with me. I tell her she just needs to work through it and it takes time.
She alternates between respectful and spew. I can't keep up.
I think you guys are too far into this (a month, right?) for her to still be doing this. I'm glad you're ending the conversations when she does this.
I'm also not so sure that a trial separation might not work to your ADVANTAGE. I wouldn't agree to it yet, but if she's still this fogged out, say, another month from now, I'd probably advise you to do SOMETHING to upset the equilibrium here. She clearly doesn't credibly fear losing you . . . (and yet she DOES fear being alone! hmmmm . . . .)
We're 3 months since NC and 6 months since BD. Yep, we're too far in. I think she's sticking to her word on NC, but his little jaunts to our fair city are not helping.
Yeah, I can't take that dating shtick anymore. I'll allow some verbal diarrhea but that little theme has gone on too long. My basic message to her on that has been, if you want to start treating me like your husband, I'm here, but otherwise we don't have much to discuss.
She brought up the trial S on Sunday morning, after we had a particularly bad Saturday night. It wasn't mentioned in the midst of anger or spew; her thought was that we're too much in each other's faces. She's having a hard time working through everything with me constantly there and her constantly tempted to come to me with her problems.
I tend to agree. Saturday night was yet another demonstration that I'm having a problem still with detaching. Two months ago I would have fought her tooth and nail, but I'm considering it now. She's not the only one who needs some clarity.
The trial S would have boundaries; no playing single. We'd still consider ourselves married; we'd still go to counseling and date each other, and have a family dinner once a week. Between those times I'd stay pretty busy and dark.
She's very open about not wanting to be alone; she just doesn't feel that connection she craves with me. It's interesting that after I demonstrated open-mindedness about a trial S she suddenly became so affectionate.
One thing I haven't brought up yet is how I envision our relationship post-D, if it comes to that. I'd never be mean or cruel to her, but aside from necessary communication about our Ds I'd pretty much be out of her life. That's not out of anger, it's for my sanity. I don't want to waste time with a woman who doesn't want me, and I don't want the torture of seeing her build a life with someone else. I'm not interested in being platonic friends with her. I don't know if she really understands that.
Last edited by Rzrback; 03/16/1510:26 PM.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
that evening she was warmer and more affectionate than she had been with me in weeks.
So why don't you call her out more often?
Quote:
She brought up the trial S on Sunday morning, after we had a particularly bad Saturday night. It wasn't mentioned in the midst of anger or spew; her thought was that we're too much in each other's faces. She's having a hard time working through everything with me constantly there and her constantly tempted to come to me with her problems.
The trial S would have boundaries; no playing single. We'd still consider ourselves married; we'd still go to counseling and date each other, and have a family dinner once a week. Between those times I'd stay pretty busy and dark.
I understand what you are saying, but I don't think she'll see it the same way. You want to keep tight reigns on her so she won't date. She is giving heavy thinking time to dating. If you S, I think she will have to take that opportunity to play single.
I don't doubt the space would do both of you good. You smother each other to death! And, she's just as controlling as you are.......just in a different way.
The LBH wants to S to work on the M, but the WW wants to S to play single. Dating would be a risk factor, but on the other hand, it could prove to be a valuable learning experience for her. What I wonder is how much of all that thought time has she considered you would be dating also?
I may sound as if I am trying to encourage you to S, but I am really just stating a few issues about it. Issues I think are closer to reality than you saying there would have to be boundaries of no dating. What would you do if she didn't honor your honor that boundary? Leave her?
She is so consumed in her FEELINGS all the blessed time (which is what a WW does) that she doesn't consider your feelings near enough. Likewise about her thoughts on dating. You have been so attached and so pursuing trying to keep her in the M, until she doesn't worry about you wanting out of the M......and especially to date other women.
I think part of the control, on your part, is not going out to GAL. You want to be sure you are there every evening to keep things secured. She manipulates you by playing the "abandonment" card. Until this cycle is broken, how can it ever hope to change?
Before deciding to S, I wish you would really start detaching and GAL. If she wants to sit at home and accuse you of abandoning her, let her. It seems to be more of a selfish problem rather than fear of being alone, IMHO.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
that evening she was warmer and more affectionate than she had been with me in weeks.
So why don't you call her out more often?
Yeah, it was the push-pull dynamic at work. I want to try that again
Quote:
I understand what you are saying, but I don't think she'll see it the same way. You want to keep tight reigns on her so she won't date. She is giving heavy thinking time to dating. If you S, I think she will have to take that opportunity to play single.
I don't doubt the space would do both of you good. You smother each other to death! And, she's just as controlling as you are.......just in a different way.
The LBH wants to S to work on the M, but the WW wants to S to play single. Dating would be a risk factor, but on the other hand, it could prove to be a valuable learning experience for her. What I wonder is how much of all that thought time has she considered you would be dating also?
A couple of months ago I would have been more afraid of that. When she first mentioned an S back in December I had no doubt that she was trying to get me out of the way so she could at least communicate with OM. Now, I see that as a less likely scenario. But yes, she would certainly have the opportunity. I have far more faith in her ability to attract a man than she does.
Quote:
I may sound as if I am trying to encourage you to S, but I am really just stating a few issues about it. Issues I think are closer to reality than you saying there would have to be boundaries of no dating. What would you do if she didn't honor your honor that boundary? Leave her?
Maybe. If we agreed on boundaries and she violated them, that would make things very clear on whether I could trust her or not. Not being able to trust her would be a deal breaker.
Quote:
She is so consumed in her FEELINGS all the blessed time (which is what a WW does) that she doesn't consider your feelings near enough. Likewise about her thoughts on dating. You have been so attached and so pursuing trying to keep her in the M, until she doesn't worry about you wanting out of the M......and especially to date other women.
I think part of the control, on your part, is not going out to GAL. You want to be sure you are there every evening to keep things secured. She manipulates you by playing the "abandonment" card. Until this cycle is broken, how can it ever hope to change?
Before deciding to S, I wish you would really start detaching and GAL. If she wants to sit at home and accuse you of abandoning her, let her. It seems to be more of a selfish problem rather than fear of being alone, IMHO.
I'm not going to mention S again for a while. It's something I'm considering, but I want to see where we are a month from now. There's no doubt I feel manipulated a lot by her. When she's in a bad emotional state, she cares about nothing but herself. I'm not there every evening, but I am more than I should. Now that she at least seems to be more engaged in working on our M, I'm not sure how detached to be. I see the point in making her at least consider that I have other options.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
Journaling today, nothing earth-shattering to report.
We're continuing to live "as-if", per our homework assignment from therapist. I could tell she was down yesterday, and we did have a brief R talk. It was fine; she's worried about our life after kids. We've got one going off to college in a couple of years, but we still have 8 years with our younger D, so it's not like we'll be empty-nesters in the immediate future.
She's worried that we don't have enough in common to sustain us after the kids leave. I'm a little worried about that too; it seems like right now if we don't talk about our R, we don't have much to talk about. That said, I don't think it's that important to have a lot in common in order to have a healthy M. I think we have a good balance of individual and common interests. It's more important to be complementary to each other. Her stress mostly comes down to the lack of attraction and connection she feels with me.
Right now I feel on top of the world, like I've finally dropped the rope. I feel in control of myself for the first time in a long time. I don't want to be alone; I want a partner. If she doesn't want to be my W, so be it. There are plenty of others who would love to have the job. Even W tells me I'm a catch. If I'm such a catch, why is she thinking about throwing me back?
Of course, I say "right now" that's how I feel because she hasn't tested me in a few days. Even as good as I feel I'm steeling myself for the next time she does.
Oh, and OM is gracing us with his presence again next week. Lovely.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
I don't want to be alone; I want a partner. If she doesn't want to be my W, so be it. There are plenty of others who would love to have the job. Even W tells me I'm a catch. If I'm such a catch, why is she thinking about throwing me back?
That made me smile and laugh, Rzr -- too funny (and maybe too TRUE to be funny for you, but it still made me chuckle).
