Don't make any decisions today, while you're angry. Continue to call her when she's downright rude or disrespectful, and end convos when you can, and give yourself time to think and time to get advice here.
I'd welcome other folks' thoughts here, as I tend to be a pretty "white hats & black hats" kinda guy, at least at this stage. (I do think the full "piecing" stage requires much more "grey," but DBing/affair-busting, and EARLY piecing, should be pretty black-and-white i.m.h.o.) So take what a say with the necessary two grains of salt.
That's why I'm posting. I don't want to decide anything until I get some feedback and also until I have a chance to talk with her face to face, calmly. Me spending my entire workday on the phone getting berated is not the path to mature decision making.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
I think it is time to draw a line at calling you at work. Deep convos cannot happen during work so they need to be saved for another time at the house.
Your W needs IC to work through her own unhappiness. I would ask your MC for solution-based ideas to get you two back on track. I think your MC is a bit too "talk" instead of focusing on "solutions."
We can't talk very well because it's work, and she's constantly interrupted. I'm thinking about sending her a text, something like this.
We really shouldn't be discussing this at work. There's a lot of issues to discuss and decisions to make, and they're things we really need to discuss face to face, in our own home, calmly. I'll get home ASAP tonight so we can talk.
Feedback?
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
I don't know what happened. She completely imploded this morning. I haven't been on the receiving end of anger like this in months.
She wants to leave but thinks she can't make it financially. And it's all my fault.
I think it's a combination of two things:
1) Seeing OM again, combined with intentionally holding onto him in her mind (ruminating); and
2) Her "one foot on the platform, the other foot on the train" decision-making has her squarely between both worlds (Rzr and OM), and emotionally it $UCK$ there for her right now.
I had to press my wife -- repeatedly -- to MAKE A DECISION. Because I truly believe that what they say is true about "Love is a decision," and while I would give her six months . . . one year . . . even TWO years . . . for FEELINGS to come back, I wasn't going to give her more than even ONE DAY without making a DECISION about whether or not she wanted to remain married to me, and work at it -- together.
I think your wife believes that Love is basically Limerence -- FEELINGS. And she ain't feelin' it for ol' Rzr yet, and yet she knows being with OM is wrong, and she's STILL -- this far in -- in denial about having to make that decision.
"After some careful thought, I think it would be best to save any heavy discussions for home for those require our full attention. It is difficult to do so while at work. Calling work should be reserved for actual emergencies concerning our children such as going to the hospital for example. Talk with you later tonight at home. Hope the rest of the day goes well for you."
"After some careful thought, I think it would be best to save any heavy discussions for home for those require our full attention. It is difficult to do so while at work. Calling work should be reserved for actual emergencies concerning our children such as going to the hospital for example. Talk with you later tonight at home. Hope the rest of the day goes well for you."
I would emphasize to W that you are a H...not a trained therapist. It is incredibly unfair for W to unburden you with this HUGE problem that she refuses to seek professional help to sort out her thoughts and feelings.
Also tell her that it is very, very difficult for her to talk to you about her feelings for another man, being afraid to date, etc with her OWN husband sitting right in front of her. I think it's time for you to draw a line in the sand on not talking about the OM with you. Again, you are not her therapist and you are not trained to help her sort those emotions.
Rzr, not sure if you've seen Sandi's latest post on her wayward wife thread or not, but there's some PURE GOLD in here, some of which I think applies to your wife's current attitude:
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Quote:
Yes, I would LOVE to see Sandi expound upon a "Letting Them Back Too Easy?" theme, from her unique FWW perspective.
We have to consider the makeup of the wayward mindset. In my simple breakdown, I would say there are 3 main veins that run to the wayward heart/mind. Those 3 are Resentment, Disrespect, and Rebellion. If you have ever experienced dealing with these feelings yourself, or dealt with another person who had them......you know it takes a lot of work to resolve those feelings completely.
Even if she is willing and trying to come to terms with it, the emotion and flashbacks that caused the resentment, still want to creep around inside her head. And there are trigger points that can set it into a beinge effect. If she has allowed herself to be controlled by her emotions (which, of course, waywards do) then it will prove to be very challenging for her and the H, just in different ways. However, I am a firm believer that it can be accomplished, if the WW wants to let go of it badly enough. Sadly, many don't want to turn lose of anger or whatever seems to control them at the moment, as crazy as that sounds. It requires a lot of self discipline, and which we know WW's have very little. Intellectually, they know they should do everything in their power to get rid of it. But what will it take to give them that "want to" get rid of it? That is the question that leads back to the H not being able to force her what to feel. However, he can certainly influence!
I wish I knew how to explain the dynamics in the female - male relationship. Then perhaps I could better explain why her respect for the H is vitally important, and how that respect, or disrespect, affects their entire MR. It definately affects her feelings for him (and I will get back to this in a second). If a man allows his WW back into the MR........knowing he does not have her respect, he will never be appreciated, much less admired. Unless she simply fakes it, she can't admire him. Those dynamics would also better explain why she has the rebellious attitude with him, as though she were a teenager and he was the parent. It is a very complex relationship and it leaves the H completely baffled with why she would say and do some of the things she does in her wayward state.
LBH's should not let her back too easily, with no questions, no discussions or decisions. He had better have a plan and have an agreement from her to cooperate 100% with his plan before he evers says they can reconcile......then hold her to it. Rug sweeping is no solution, period. It makes matters worse, so that route needs to be taken off the table immediately. Neither can the H "nice" her out of her waywardness. This is where I think some of the LBW's here on the board may have a problem with some of the tough love advice. B/c they would love it if their bad H was nice, especially if he had been abusive. However, these ladies are not wayward, and that's the main difference. I am telling you it does not work with a wayward woman. It stems from those three areas......resentment, disrespect, and rebellion.
There are some things that time eventually heals, but I personally do not believe time, alone, can heal matters of this nature. Time, coupled with good counseling can help with a big part. However, before a woman can begin to resolve these problems, she has to be willing to work at leaning how to let go of the past and stop blaming her H for everything. in her frame of mind, I believe she has to have some type of guidance from an unbiased source........and preferably, professional. I don't mean attending MC with her H, either. She first needs help just for herself. If she has a spiritual leader, I would recommend spiritual counseling, b/c these are matters of the heart. Once she begins to deal honestly with her feelings......and is seeking to learn new skills, the couple stands such a better chance at reconciling. And then the couple should attend a good MC or a highly recommended M program, support groups or something that will help guide them through Piecing. Just leaving a couple to figure it out on their own is not the healthiest of choices. The main ingredient there is willingness from both sides.
I believe a woman cannot hold on to these three issues toward her H and/or the M, and have a warm, loving, sexual desire for him. These strong, negative feelings will surface almost daily in some sort of fashion. Some women may be HD enough they will want the act of sex, but they use the man as if he were some type of object in order for her to receive pleasure. Some women may play along and just tolerate the sex, but she doesn't feel the attraction and desire for him. And that's not to mention those who use sex as a way to manipulate the H. She may go through the act of ML, but that's all it will be. I can't give any scientific proof, IJMHO, that it is impossible for a woman to have that kind of inner contempt for her H.......and be able to feel attraction/desire for him. I believe that is the true source for a lot of SSM.
She has to find appropriate means to help her resolve this mindset in order to have peace within herself. By that, I mean her meeting with her new friends at the bar is not the guidance she should receive to resolve her bad feelings. Even if she were to move on to another relationship, this mindset toward her H, consequently affects her ability to have complete contentment in her life, IMO. She may try to ignore it, deny it, and act otherwise......but it still lives in her heart and it is a dark, cold leach that [censored] away at the core of her spirit. So, just imagine how it would be for the LBH to allow his WW to return to the MR too easily, instead of her doing the necessary work, first.
When or if a LBH lets his WW back into the MR too easily, it is comparable to dismissing someone who is pregnant. She is pregnant and must go through a laboring process. (The pregnancy/labor metaphor is applicable to many things. I used it in the last thread illustrating Piecing the M back.) In the pregnancy stages, the H notices when things become uncomfortable for her, she is grouchy, complains, nothing suits her, etc. Her hormones are wacky, so she does some weird and out of character stuff. The H usually does whatever he can to make things easier for her. In time, she starts to experience contractions, and things go into high gear. She may, or may not, turn to a professional for help. The labor can be long and agonizing, and most H's wish there was just something he could do to take her pain away. His role during that time should be to show her he is emotionally strong, stable, and confident. She doesn't need to see him crying or begging her for anything. He doesn't show her how afraid he really feels. He doesn't start acting like a crazy person and screaming along with her, or reacting to her contractions. He doesn't even get upset when she screams, "This is all your fault. I will never let you touch me again".
This may not have been the greatest anology off the top of my head, but I hope some of you will see that the main message here is to let her go through the labor process. The H is making a bad mistake to let her back into the MR without her doing some work on herself. Why would a man want a woman to be with him and have those terrible feelings toward him? There are no short-cuts and those unresolved feelings will surface!
