For the Newcomer LBH who has a wayward wife Part 2

[Miman2]

Sandi, I was reading through Ben2010's posts and I saw something you posted there.

If it helps, I was very torn and confused. I changed my mind a thousand times a day. Now what may seem odd is that it was not my LBH that talked me into staying in the M. Remember, he could do nothing right, in my eyes. It was, however, total strangers who got my attention and told me the truth of what was happening to me.....and what was needed to get through the mess I was in.

If you don't mind me asking what total strangers? Here from the board?

[sandi2]

Okay, thanks Igit. Maybe I can simplify this by saying it this way. If your W is having an A, she is already wayward. It is not a matter of her becoming wayward, b/c she's already there. One WW's behavior and attitude may be worse than another, but it's still coming from a wayward heart.

The information about her relationship with her father is sad, indeed. How much that conditioned her to be vulnerable for waywardness, I don't know. It may have set the stage for a negative self value throughout her life. I mean, look how parents are blamed for most of our psychological problems. However, I strongly believe that waywardness is a choice. Not that we wake up one morning and say, "I have decided to become wayward". No, it is broken down into small decisions & actions based upon the negative feelings of that person. Usually they have carried around a lot of resentment and/or other unhealthy feelings, and at some point it tips the scales in what is right to what I want. IMO, they are not receiving the positive/healthy things they need to keep the scales balanced. A better description may be to see the scales balancing what we know to be right on one side and what we are feeling on the other side. When the scales tip over to what we feel, then the emotions steer the actions. It may take some particular incident, or going through a long period of endurance that takes its toll to weight the scales down.......but when the side of what I want to feel becomes too heavy........that is when the line is crossed. They do some action that is contrary to the principles/values/belief system/code of morality they previously lived. But it's more than the matter of just one action. One action could be repented, confessed, forgiven, and left behind. Instead, the one action grows b/c it feeds on the emotions of that person. It becomes a different lifestyle, perhaps hidden for a time, but eventually becomes to big to hide.

People have to have a few healthy things in their life that off-sets the bad. That's why it is so important to nourish a MR. If not, we can expect trouble. What started as a reaction to negative feelings in small, but rebellious acts, grows into larger ones, compromising their integrity. The person they once were, fades into a new rebellious and selfish creature.

I have seen many newcomers come here with broken hearts, trying to rationalize the behavior of their S. I have seen many who immediately labeled the S as having a MLC. My intent is not to add more confusion for anyone about the wayward W. I hope to explain how the waywardness separates them from the W who leaves the M for other reasons. As I said, an A certainly defines her as wayward, especially if there has been no remorse and turning away from OM. Also, from many who are in MLC get involved in a A or other wayward behaviors. Reading the symptoms of the WAW, WW, & MLC sound very much alike, don't they?

People with low self-esteem, in unhappy marriages, dealing with constant high pressured drama, have years of unmet emotional needs........on & on, are susceptible to having an A. Let's face it, if we are human we are susceptible! Doesn't mean we will choose to have one, just that everyone has some kind of weakness and need in life. It can be met in a healty way, or unhealthy. I never thought I would get involved in an A, either. I just wasn't that kind of person. Ha! That type of thinking sets us up right there. We all are capable....if the heart is wrong and conditions are just right.

The smart person, and couple, would have an affair proof plan for their M. Sadly, most of us see no need to have one, until it's too late. The misconception is believing you don't need one b/c you trust each other, have a solid M, or b/c of religious reasons, or whatever. I have learned those can all be shot down.

[Joe46]

Sandi, I have a question about this post. I can see how years of a W not getting her emotional needs met can push her over that edge. She starts thinking that it is time to think of herself and her emotional needs. But isn't this kind of saying, you didn't love me like I wanted to be loved so now I can find love elsewhere? I guess it confuses me some. I thought that we had talked about a WW and her actions are not justified because her bad things happened in her marriage? In my situation, I can see how I have handled things wrong. Not shown the love to my wife like she wanted. But I think that MC or couple retreats or just sitting down and actually talking are way better ways to handle things that doing things that make it worse." Keeping the road paved smooth" can also apply here I think. My wife has never sat down and sad, this bothers me when you do this or I want us to spend more time together or it hurts me when you act this way or say a certain thing. I would have at least known we had some problems.

[Vanilla]

Was talking to my friend about this and he came up with an interesting analogy.

Suppose someone had saved up a lot of money over 10-20 years. Then, they became a drug or gambling addict. They might burn through all of their savings, then eventually max out all of their credit lines, doing whatever they needed to for them to keep getting their fix. They might continue until they had no more money, their credit was shot with friends and with creditors, and they had no way left to get their drug of choice. Only then might they hit rock bottom.

Similarly, the love and emotional goodwill of the LBS is like the "savings account". The WW will throw the LBS some GENUINE feelings of conflict, regret, and affection, but the true purpose is so they LBS doesn't "cut them off". The true goal is to be able to avoid consequences and maintain a lifestyle in which they get their fix. They won't stop until the LBS gets tired of the game and genuinely lets go.

In the gambling/drug situation, the moment the other spouse tried to shut off access to the bank accounts, the addict would throw a FIT. The spouse is now a threat to their fix and so they become an enemy, subject to manipulation, rage, abuse, etc. So too with LBS's, the moment they ask for transparency and the requirement to leave OM, etc, the WW kicks and screams and get's really angry about how "they are trying to work on the M but you are making it impossible for me to want to", etc.

BEST THING A LBS CAN DO IS SHUT OFF ACCESS TO THE EMOTIONAL SAVINGS THAT WERE BUILT OVER THE YEARS. DETACH AND DON'T ALLOW YOUR DESIRE FOR R TO AVOID THE REALITY OF WHAT IS GOING ON.

Walk away, GAL, detach, take care of yourself. Maybe WW will bottom out someday. That can't happen unless you make peace and regain your independence, because as long as you NEED the M, the WW will use that to control the situation and avoid reality.

You are writing about my H!

V

[sandi2]

I can see how years of a W not getting her emotional needs met can push her over that edge.

I wouldn't say it pushes over the edge, b/c that sounds as if she's forced over, against her will. However, it can cause her to have very negative feelings......and that sets the stage for waywardness.

She starts thinking that it is time to think of herself and her emotional needs

.

Like I said in my last post, it begins with having the wrong feelings in her heart. Those feelings continue to grow until it outweighs anythings else. Then she reacts to something, and with that comes a good feeling. So good, in fact, that she wants more. So she engages in more of the same behavior. She will try to justify her actions, but that doesn't mean they are!

It's not like she makes this sound decision that she should start thinking of herself and finding a better H, or even a lover who will make passionate love to her. This has been slowly building from a heart that is filled with resentment, disrespect for her H, rebellion, and maybe much more......like low self esteem, rejection, abandonment, lonliness, etc. There has been something missing. Her needs have not been met someway, somehow. Then usually something happens to either cause much stress or creates an opportunity. Either way, her guard is down. She is emotionally vulnerable. Perhaps some women welcome the temptation and responds greedily. Perhaps their heart has hardened against the H they don't even care. Perhaps it is a moment of weak desperation to feel desirable. We could list many possibilities! Bottom line is.......she's accountable for her actions. No matter how bad the M is, she is accountable for her own actions. If we start saying the H pushed her over the edge, then that sets her free of any responsibility. See what I mean? Sure, bad circumstances can influence our decisions. Being mentally or emotionally unstable can influence our decisions. Being in a terrible M can do terrible things to people. As one man told me once, the right thing to have done was for you to get D before deciding to have an A. Of course, at the time, I wanted to blame my H for everything. He was to blame for part of the breakdown in our M, but not my A.

But isn't this kind of saying, you didn't love me like I wanted to be loved so now I can find love elsewhere?

Maybe. I'm not sure how you mean this, b/c you are trying to make it sound too logical. WW's are not logical. Their emotions are leading their actions! Women think so differently from men, so how can I possibly explain where you understand?

I guess it confuses me some. I thought that we had talked about a WW and her actions are not justified because her bad things happened in her marriage?

I thought I clearly pointed out in my last post that her actions are not justified.

But I think that MC or couple retreats or just sitting down and actually talking are way better ways to handle things that doing things that make it worse." Keeping the road paved smooth" can also apply here I think

No, you are wrong. Instead of me repeating everything I have already said in this thread, why don't you go back and read my posts here? This really frustrates the he11 out me, Joe. I spent a very long time explaining why this very concept you just said about paving a smooth road is wrong!!!

Sitting down and have a long R talk doesn't do a thing to help a WW. But soft men will fall back on that cliche' b/c they are scared to do the action it takes when dealing with a WW. You had rather, even prefer, to take all the blame for you W's horrible behavior than to follow through with the boundary you set. Go back and read my thread, Joe.

[claire7]

Reading this makes me realize that I felt just like a WAW. And I probably resent my WAH for doing what I couldn't or wouldn't bring myself to do-- leave. I wanted to.

[Joe46]

Sorry Sandi, I was not trying to frustrate you. I was talking about a WW. I meant that I think that if a W is unhappy in her marriage that maybe she should go with her husband to MC, a retreat or talk with the husband or D, before all of sudden have an affair. The WW is not making things easier to repair the marriage by doing these things. It makes it way harder and for some impossible. IMHO.

I was really just picking your brain and you answered all my questions. Plus I like reading your posts!

And I wanted to see if you would yell at me again!! LOL!!

[Joe46]

I believe what triggered my wife to start acting this way was when her youngest son from her first marriage graduated. It was at that time that she began to change. I saw anger in her. She would talk about herself as being a bad girl. She always pointed out when other men would notice her. She shared these things as trying to hurt me. Her self esteem was very low. She began to talk about things that she normally did not. Her swears words became worse. She acted like she did not care about anything anymore.

The sad thing is our two younger children spent all summer at home playing video games during the day. There were alot of days that she would sit in her room all day doing her work. I started getting texts from younger D that her mom just sits and there on her computer. I was 30 miles away at work. This is before we moved to town. It felt like she did not want to do alot with them because of me. It was weird.

[Wonka]

Dear LBHs,

I'd like to draw your attention to this portion which is a variation of the same theme you all have said in your own threads over time:

My wife has never sat down and said, this bothers me when you do this or I want us to spend more time together or it hurts me when you act this way or say a certain thing. I would have at least known we had some problems.

I would challenge this very grieviously erroneous "A$$umption" on your part for your wives have ALL said over a period of time how unhappy they were but you all have TUNED them out as "nagging." Then one day, the nagging stops. In your mind, all's well because she's stopped doing it...and you think the M is in good shape.

As MWD eloquently explains in the book, when your wife stops nagging, then your M has slipped into the danger zone because your wife has completely given up on the notion that you've heard her and not taking her concerns seriously.

This is when your W drops the bomb...and you come crying here all "shocked" that not a word was said about how unhappy she truly was in the M.

Then you feign shock at the BD. Well, that got your attention FAST...alas...a bit too little, too late AFTER MONTHS (AND PROBABLY YEARS) of "nagging."

Really??!!

Are you all so tone deaf that you never HEARD a single word from your W raising the alarm about the state of the M and her unhappiness??!

Let me spell it out for you clearly here:

Your wife stops communicating her concerns because she's seen that YOU'VE not taken her concerns seriously despite her best efforts to call your attention to the growing problem.

You think all's well when she stops "yapping" at you. You think that your wife is all happy again.

Delusional thinking.

I am sure with your 20/20 hindsight now, you realize that the hints and clues were all there for you all along and YOU missed them.

[HeavyD]

I second Wonka's opinions.

My WAW tried to "tell" me through weird ways that she was unhappy. One method was using playing a song and expecting me to listen to the message and figure it out.

She often said "This marriage is broken" usually before I went ot of town on business which ruined my whole business trip. When I got home, she was back to normal. I gave up trying to figure out what she was really saying. I would say I need a specific example of what you are talking about and she would always say "You should know, I shouldn't have to tell you". I am many things but a mind reader I am not.

When her grandmother died in August I was not there (in a diferent state) now that I look back on it, I can tell that she really wanted me to be there. I was working and should have gone home to be with her but honestly I just didn't get it. I missed that signal. She started he affair at the end of August. I am sure she and her AP bonded over the loss of her grandmother. They were most likely in constant contact via texting and emails during this time period.

Crud - so many missed signals and opportunities to connect with her.

I regret all of that so much. Now she is beyond reach and I have no opportunity to reach her at all. A devastating loss for me and my kids.