On balance I'd say we're in a good place. I'm still bothered by her apparent lack of remorse. She says she regrets what happened and she talk about how "lost" she was, but she never seems very "sorry" for the pain she caused. I think she's still doing too much justification because of the pain that I caused her. I fully own my failures in our relationship, but it still seems to be too much about my mistakes and not enough about hers. In the grand scheme of things her A was pretty mild and she's done a good job of staying within boundaries. OM even attempted to flirt with her when he was in town this last time and she shut him down.
You know this...how? That's a good sign. It seems to me that this process will zig zag for a while and it will not always be a linear process for your W.
Don't roll your eyes too hard, but I know because she told me. She's been so insanely forthcoming about her feelings during this thing, good bad and ugly, that I doubt she's going to make up something to tell me that's so inconsequential. She didn't have to say a thing.
Last edited by NH115; 03/27/1508:06 PM.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
Don't roll your eyes too hard, but I know because she told me. She's been so insanely forthcoming about her feelings during this thing, good bad and ugly, that I doubt she's going to make up something to tell me that's so inconsequential. She didn't have to say a thing.
^^^ it's a good thing actually because she's starting to open up a bit more to you. That's the path toward healing. It seems that your MC counselor is giving you two some really good homework assignments. Keep it up.
I also think you are ready for this book:
Intellectual Foreplay: Questions for Lovers & Lovers-To-Be
by Eve Eschner Hogan with Steven Hogan
I would suggest that you read the book alone. Do this exercise for yourself. Then you might want to select a question or two from the book to ask W during one of your date nights or whatever you two do alone as a couple. This book is perfect for those who are in piecing or in the beginning stages of reconciliation--especially for LBS.
This book really opened my eyes and made me think about my FOO issues, my overall outlook on what I truly want in an intimate partnership, and how I can be more mindful of my shortcomings.
I don't think I'm overstating things when I say that you, Sandi, and Wonka (and a few others) have kept me focused and sane. I don't want to think about where I'd be right now if I hadn't found this forum. I've approached this with too much fear, but the fear is draining away, and I'm getting where I need to be finally.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
I don't know if it will be helpful, but in the last post I have on my thread, as of now, I shared some of my own struggles I had with remorse.
I was much like you have described your own W. I don't think I actually said it, but had the attitude of "It happened, so move on". I read posts from LBH's expressing how important the WW's apology was to the H. In fact, I think the first encounter I had with "Puppy" was over the WW's apology, when I made some sarcastic statement about the LBH not holding his breath waiting for it. You can imagine Pup's reaction.
I am not patting myself on the back, by any stretch of the imagination, when I say I reached the point of praying to feel remorseful. That is how bad it was for me. Not trying to push anything down anyone's throat about it, either. I had a Christian background/foundation, so I knew it was needed for me, but at the time, I just did not feel any remorse for my actions. Probably due to the other bad stuff in my heart at the time.
I sincerely can't remember the number of months it took before I finally went to my H, crying so hard he could barely understand what I was saying. Oh! Did I feel remorseful! Then I thought I would die from it, and had to pray that God would ease up a little. No, just kidding a little about God letting up.
I will admit that it has been much harder to forgive myself. I had made progress, but I've learned that sometimes something happens and it triggers the guilt and/or shame. When my mother passed away three months ago, it triggered those feelings of deep regret and sorrow for my wayward behavior. Once again, the people on this board came and put their arms around me, and talked me through it.
Btw, I don't hang around this place out of feelings of guilt. It is b/c somewhere along the way, I hope to help those, like you, who have been so hurt by a WW like me.
((NH)). Don't give up on her. I can so relate with your W. I don't usually tell newcomers this, but maybe I should. It was probably about two years, as best I can remember, for me to accomplish what I call, "the hard work", which was getting through the withdrawals; taking complete responsibility for my actions; being truely remorseful; really forgiving my H for everything; letting go of the past; finding peace to live with myself; and finally being able to get our MR back on track. So even if you have to S, don't give up on her just yet.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi, you're doing God's work. I did read your last post and it resonated with me. If it were possible, I'd get you and W together to share a bottle of Pinot
My W's rhetoric is some facile remorse, she's "sorry", but then she usually ends it with "but nobody knows what I've been through. I know well that she's got a lot of junk to work through before she feels true remorse. I know she's got a low opinion of herself, but it's not specifically for her actions.
Our new focus in MC is forgiveness. I think that's going to be very helpful.
And on an unrelated note, D10 is now D11! Happy birthday to my sweet pea.
Last edited by NH115; 03/27/1510:35 PM.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
The race went great on Sunday. My leg was 6 miles and I did it at an 8:30 pace. Not bad for a broken-down fortysomething
I still think W is trying. She still gets panicky. I screwed up during an R talk on Saturday; it was otherwise productive until I lost my head and made a dig at OM. We weren't specifically talking about OM, but I slipped and made what I considered a minor dig. I didn't call him predator, douchebag, or bullet trap, as I have in the past. Instead I made fun of his goatee. It was childish and I felt bad, but she went apesh*t. We got things back on track but I dropped the ball there. I know better than to talk about him and I never initiate talk about him, because I know how rapidly I spiral.
Yesterday was good. We had an epiphany in MC; we were talking about family upbringing and it came up that my family conditioned me to be polite and hers conditioned her to be loyal. My conditioning interfered with my ability to protect her against my toxic parents. She felt I was disloyal (rightfully so) when I thought I was just trying to keep peace.
My Dad sent me an email telling me they were coming up to Arkansas in a couple of weeks. I haven't communicated much with them since before Christmas. I had no intention of seeing them; so I had just ignored the email for several days. The therapist advised me to go ahead and answer them as a way of showing my W that I was no longer an avoider and that I was willing to confront them when necessary. My homework was to answer them within 24 hours. Didn't need that much time. As soon as I got back to my desk I answered back with a terse "I'm not available that week". My dad, apparently not getting the message, asked me when I was available. My answer:
How about not for the foreseeable future?
I've apparently been unclear. My marriage is hanging by a thread and hold both of you partially responsible.
When I get my marriage and my life out of the weeds I'll consider meeting with you. No discussion, no debate. Back off.
W was grateful that I had done that. She knows how hard it would have been for me to be that honest with them a couple of years ago. Hopefully it was a step in rebuilding her trust in me. Sounds funny that I'm worried about her trusting me, but the reality is that I did things to damage that trust long before OM showed up. That's part of cleaning up my side of the MR.
To end the night I led a family meeting about W's upcoming surgery and what needs to happen during her recovery, vis a vis my spoiled Ds need to not whine about going places and spending money, and need to pull their weight around the house. They're really pretty good about it, but they need to understand that W will not be able to drive them places a the drop of a hat for a while. I know W is starting to feel anxiety about her surgery and the recovery. Apparently there will be some significant pain involved, and it will temporarily take away her two biggest stress relievers...work and exercise. She'll have a lot of time to sit and think and that tends to be dangerous for her. That's usually when she panics.
I felt like we were a team, for the first time in a while. I think she did too. Maybe a piece or two of the wall came down. Who knows?
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
Prayers for your W for her upcoming surgery. I am really proud of how you are handling everything. You seem to really be working hard and trying to do what is right for yourself, your W and your Ds. I am inspired and I am rooting for you, my fellow Arkie!
Me 52, H53 Bomb drop 9/29/2014 Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014 Marriage #2 12/31/2019 5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships) 6 grandkids
