I sure don't want anyone to think I am saying I know how the LBS feels. One of the really good things about this board, is how we all learn from each other. I have learned so much from other people's experiences, and I continue learning.
You are far too modest, Sandi. You do have a WEALTH of experience to offer in how the wayward spouse feels, thinks, operates and justifies, and -- ultimately heals -- and that does open up an entirely new perspective for LBSs. It's a perspective that on my best day I cannot offer, and it is nothing short of a BLESSING that you are here.
I see now (and again, and again, and . . .) why the mods are always quick to point hurting newbies directly to your sage advice!
Can I revisit this - "responsible for making happy" theme?
I think we all have a responsibility not to cause unhappiness for our spouses. By this I mean we know of examples where partners have been critical, angry, negative and so on. And I think these things cause unhappiness in the recipient.
So, I think there's a responsibility not to cause unhappiness for others in such ways. But I think the primary responsibility for happiness lies within ourselves. But it would be difficult to be happy with an angry, critical, negative partner if you see what I mean.
However, if you have a partner who is generally pretty nice, and 'good enough' and you are unhappy within yourself, that may well be more yours to fix.
Does that make sense?
Oh my gosh, I intended to get back to that very subject.
So........take it away, Starsky.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
If I may throw something in here, and I know I've asked a lot of questions already, but it's this: I have looked and looked through this site and elsewhere at how a LBH (or W for that matter) might implement the last resort technique when there are children involved. On the surface it would seem simple, keep contact to a minimum and only child related. In reality life is not so simple, particularly with children involved, and I wonder how feelings of personal guilt, abandonment of children, guilt implied by S, and other factors come into play when you are at this stage.
If this is not where you would like this discussion to go then please forgive me. At the same time if anyone reading this has any good resources relating to this then I would really appreciate them letting me know.
Alpha
BD - 30TH JAN 2015 S - 30TH JAN 2015 PA CONFIRMED - 16TH FEB 2015 (SINCE AT LEAST OCT 2014) CONTINUAL TALK OF D ME: 31 W: 28 T: 10yrs M: 4.5yrs D:5, S:6
Men and women that would knowingly get involved with a married woman or man, and prey upon their emotional weaknesses, ARE predators!! In every sense of the word.
I detest them. Do not "make friends" with them, do not expect them to deal honorably with you (for they are, by definition, DIShonorable) and do NOT take what they tell you as TRUTH!
Starsky
Sigh...If only my W would understand that OM did exactly that. She was upset one morning when he happened to be in town...she told him about her rocky marriage. He saw the opening and went for it. He could have listened as a friend and backed off, instead he saw it as his opportunity and exploited it. Despite all our apparent progress, she still doesn't see it. She still believes that he wasn't lying to her when he said he had a rocky marriage himself. He's willing to lie to his own wife, but wouldn't lie to his prospective AP? Geez. I know if I wanted to start an A I sure as heck wouldn't tell the woman that I had a happy marriage!
I had mentioned before that he had cheated on his W at least two other times in the 18 or so years he's been married. Infidelity is just how he rolls. "Slimeball" just doesn't describe him adequately. W says he's "lost" and "damaged" just like her. I do a lot of eye rolling inside my mind.
Oh, no chance I'd ever make nice with him. I think if I ever shook his hand I'd just go ahead and rip his arm off in the process.
Sorry. That was the longest I've talked about OM in weeks. I spiral easily...gotta stop that
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
Alpha, one way is to use things like Cozi calendars for all family scheduling, and even go so far as to use a trusted third party as an intermediary for all exchanges of children. CERTAINLY follow an agreed-upon, thorough parenting plan at a minimum.
It's more difficult when children are involved, but it can be done; one can go as dim or as totally DARK as they want, if they choose to.
Is it fair to say that any LBS could misplace some of the guilt they feel, to cause them to believe they are responsible for the WAS's affair (or other wayward behaviors)? From what I have seen in some threads, it seems this follows shortly after they do the deep self-examination. Perhaps it is a response to those feelings of guilt, and they don't see the lines clearly?
Just from my perspective, this is exactly what I did. While my W only had an EA as far as I know, she did attempt to start a relationship. I took my failures of not being there for her during the miscarriage and blamed myself for everything that was happening.
I now realize my situation fits what most people have, years of neglect on both our parts and growing resentment that allowed her to let another in her heart. The signs were there before the miscarriage that she was in an EA and I don't even think she realized it at the time.
Once I realized she was in the EA I blamed myself for it all. I felt tremendous guilt at what happened. This was also just after the deep self-examination phase. In my mind all I could see was everything was my fault and I pushed her into his arms.
I realize now the truth, I had my role in the breakdown of the marriage but she is responsible for her actions. She could have chose not to pursue those feelings, but she did.
Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
Sandi, these are helping me a ton. I am learning alot about myself right now and also how my actions may have caused some hurt feelings in my marriage. But I in no way think a person has a right to get into a affair or any kind of infidelity. That was one of my points I was making awhile ago. In my situation, my WW has made it more difficult for us to R with the actions she is doing and has done. I had minor issues of trust with her before all this. Now I have MAJOR issues that will take a long time to work through. And we have the issue of intimacy ( if we should ever get there) and the thoughts of other men and the what she has said to them. In the past, I never ever thought I would have to deal with these kinds of thoughts from my W. If she would have packed her bags and said, I am leaving because I am unhappy and things need to change, it might be different. Still hard, but different.
Me:44 EXW 44 Wonderful Children M11, T14 BD 6/14 OM Confirmed Divorce Final 2/25/16 "It works if you work it!"
Well I'll be off for a couple of hours, so you can catch up LOL!!
Sandi, you and I should write a book someday. We can ask MWD if she'll write the Foreward to it. We can call it something like "When It All Falls Apart: A Story of Betrayal and Redemption from a Former Wayward Spouse and Another Betrayed Husband" or some such! We could do like a back-and-forth thing with blocks of text, each giving our own viewpoints on the same thing.
I will eventually get there.