For the LBH who has a WW Part 3

[Zues126]

FYI- I'm not saying that's easy, or that I can't believe anyone would fail to do it. I get affairs, I get addictions. Trust me. I made choices when I was younger that were destructive and based on addictive behavior. I am simply stating that it isn't right for my values. I think everyone agrees with this. I'm not even sure what the argument is on this.

[Starsky309]

You are correct that it is not easy at all. This has been a good discussion and we come from different perspectives based on our own experiences. That's okay.

or, as Martha Stewart would say, "That's a GOOD thing."

[Cadet]

Do I UNDERSTAND it? Hell yeah -- it's basic human nature. Love, lust, meeting unmet physical and emotional needs . . . I get ALL of it, and have even been through it -- twice. I just think you should end your marriage before you give in to it.

Only if it were that simple.....

It does not work for people who are already in a vulnerable position. If one was strong, courageous and clear-eyed, yeah...otherwise there would be no affair, right?

The problem is that many people have already gone past the "give in to it" stage which makes it excruciatingly difficult to extract from the OM/OW. Just like a drug addict refusing to give up heroin or meth. Intellectually, they know that drugs are bad for them, but keep doing it because of the "high."

It's no use to try to make sense out of irrational behavior because rational does not apply to druggies or people in affairs.

I am trying to follow along here, and I tend to side with Starsky that you should end your marriage first before dating but maybe you are not talking about the LBS.

I know their has been discussions in the past about using dating as a tactic to lure the WAS back and I must say that MWD disagrees with that and I also agree with MWD too.

If you want to start dating then get divorced and do whatever you want.

Or am I missing something here?

[Starsky309]

Cadet, we are talking about the wayward spouse, not the LBS.

[sandi2]

Mozza- that's NOT what she's supposed to do.

Oh, I knew what I was suppose to do! That was never the issue for me.

It wasn't as though I was on some LSD trip and thought I could really fly like a bird. Although, when looking back, it must have appeared as if I didn't have much more rationale. The feelings I experienced could be compared to the high one gets from taking a drug. IMO, those feel-good highs do not force a person against their volition, but may be argued how the person's moral defenses are lowered after the line is crossed. By that, I mean I chose to go with what made me feel good and was an escape route from my reality. Did I stop and and question if it was wrong.......and/or consider talking to my H one more time about the emotional pain I had? Heck, no! I didn't think about my H, or having another talk, or much of anything else, honestly. I had those moral codes, but I just didn't care enough at the time to enforce it. Frankly, in the beginning, I can't remember feeling guilty about it. It was fun. It was exciting. For the first time in years, I actually felt sexually alive. I endulged in an area that fed my old human ego, and I allowed my own moral and spiritual defenses to lower in order to selfishly partake in wrong behavior.

When she meets OM in August and starts feeling her M is dead, she's supposed to understand those are FEELINGS caused by a DRUG like reaction to a stimulant.

I am not so sure I understood all of this, at the time. It is embarrassing that I was fairly ignorant about it, but in all honesty, I can't remember ever thinking about it during that time. I had never read information about PEA, until I came to the board.

Then she's supposed to cut him out of her life, wait for 6-12 months past when she feels involved with him, and work on her M with you. She is to tell you of what nearly happened and explain that she isn't just recommitting to the M because she'll never leave, but that she doesn't want to leave under the influence, and that things need to get better or she WILL leave.

I think "under the influence" is an accurate description of how it feels. To intellectually know how to recognize what is happening, or to make the decent, moral decision to leave your M before engaging further, sounds right to me. In fact, I wouldn't even swear that I've never said what that person should or shouldn't have done. I just know that I was, indeed, under the influence. We aren't at our sharpest or make the wisest decisions under the influence........whatever the influence might be. Not making it an excuse, just saying what it was like for me.

[Heart14]

Very interesting dialogue going on here. I actually think most WAS's say, and probably think, that they'll never cheat before they cross the line either. Prior to the affair they quite possibly think it's against their own morals. Yes, they made a choice I can't imagine myself making. I don't feel comfortable judging them on that choice alone though.

I agree that someone should leave the M before they cheat. However, I think if my H had done that, neither of us would have achieved so much personal growth in such a short period of time. I can see that him making a really bad choice was actually a catalyst for some really positive change in my life.

[sandi2]

Gee whiz, by the time I get a post out, the whole subject has changed. Explains why my post to Alpha seems sort of off topic.

Anyway, Zues, Starsky, and others, I think we agree on what is morally right and wrong. I think what we (Wonka & myself) are saying is that we just don't always follow what we know to be right. If we did, what a different world this would be. It does seem that it should be that simple, doesn't it? In my rational mind, I agree. In my WW mindset, forget it. Sometimes our state of mind can make simple things seem very complicated.

I think Starsky said the word I was seeking earlier.......lust. A powerful pull. Add emotions and personal circumstances into the mix and you've got problems. Doesn't change right into wrong, but it often changes our actions.

[Starsky309]

I agree that someone should leave the M before they cheat. However, I think if my H had done that, neither of us would have achieved so much personal growth in such a short period of time. I can see that him making a really bad choice was actually a catalyst for some really positive change in my life.

You know I've never thought of that Heart, and I think you're right! Certainly I think it's accurate in my marriage. Nothing snapped me into action quite like another man preying on my wife!!!


Starsky

[sandi2]

Very interesting dialogue going on here. I actually think most WAS's say, and probably think, that they'll never cheat before they cross the line either.

Thanks Heart, Yes, you are preaching to the choir, sister. I'm pretty sure I did judge those who cheated. . Not that I thought I was above doing such actions........(or maybe I did).........I just never believed I would. I never would have believed I could do some of the things I did.

I think of what Dr. Harley wrote about affair proofing your M. Sadly, I never thought it was necessary.......not for my M! We had 110% trust in each other. I didn't think you could find a couple any more straight-laced than we were.

[NH115]

Gee whiz, by the time I get a post out, the whole subject has changed. Explains why my post to Alpha seems sort of off topic.

Anyway, Zues, Starsky, and others, I think we agree on what is morally right and wrong. I think what we (Wonka & myself) are saying is that we just don't always follow what we know to be right. If we did, what a different world this would be. It does seem that it should be that simple, doesn't it? In my rational mind, I agree. In my WW mindset, forget it. Sometimes our state of mind can make simple things seem very complicated.

I think Starsky said the word I was seeking earlier.......lust. A powerful pull. Add emotions and personal circumstances into the mix and you've got problems. Doesn't change right into wrong, but it often changes our actions.

Very well put. I rail against OM (and cheaters in general), but one thing that has tempered my anger at my W has been the knowledge that it could have been me.

Both of us were feeling the loneliness and the disconnect....she just had an opportunity for an A first. The roles could have been reversed...very easily.