This is so helpful to read in my situation.. My WAS was always dead set against affairs. Helpful and encouraging to read from a WAS that eventually the allure of the OP wears off and you look at your happy contented LBS and suddenly want them back.
Operation make me the kinda girl a man would be a FOOL to leave
Me 26 H 25 M 4 T 5 Baby born 4/14 BD: 1/15 EA: 2/15 PA: 4/15 reconciling: 4/15 ILYBINILWY- 11/15 ILY-1/16 ILYBNILWY 4/16 ILY 6/16 ILYBINILWY 6/16 Baby due 3/17 BD 8/16
You know I've never thought of that Heart, and I think you're right! Certainly I think it's accurate in my marriage. Nothing snapped me into action quite like another man preying on my wife!!!
Starsky
My W filed before I found about the A. Her filing almost meant nothing to me due to me being detached and unhappy in the M. I was in a bad place and didn't realize how bad of a place I was in mentally.
Finding out about her A was another story. It was truly the atom bomb that shocked me to my core.It made me look at myself and how the result of my action of inaction effected others in my family.
I'll admit that the diver for my changes was my M after I found about the A. However, my M is over and is not the reason I am continuing to work on myself. My future and my kids are.
It's interesting to me that the A is what snaps people to attention. How many times did I hear "we need to talk" w/o any lasting effect? I truly regret my past inactions now.
M:42 W:43 T:14 M:10 S:9 D:5 W filed 12/22/14 EA 12/31/14 PA 4/10/15 D final 5/13/15
For me BD was the shock. When she BD'd me and asked me to leave the house I was wide awake. I didn't know she was in an A (it became a slight EA prior to BD, and a PA after I moved out...if what she told me is true, but who knows) until 3 months later. I suspected just based on what I'd seen but I wasn't sure.
Honestly that has never impacted me. I don't take it as personal, I see it just as another destructive decision like her drinking. But whether she lies in a lovers nest projecting fantasies onto OM because she's feeling powerful brain reactions, to me that's not a big deal.
I always said that had she truly been on a healing route of self reflection and discovery, then 6 months down the road after the D met a guy at church that was widowed, and started having deep talks and developing the start of a healthy R, etc...that would've been much harder. Watching an emotionally empty woman that was in a lot of pain give herself physically to other men to feel important and attractive, well I just feel bad for her.
Make no mistake, it would be hard to get over if she wanted to R, but more because I wouldn't trust her character to behave in the future, not just because it hurt my feelings.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I'm sure this doesn't matter, but the thing that gets to me about all these WAS is the commitment issue!! When I stood in front of God, justice of the peace and friends and family, I said " till death do us part". NOT "till I am unhappy in my marriage" or " till you don't make me happy anymore" or " till I lose my attraction to you". And so did my wife. I grew up in the ranch and cowboy life where truth and honor meant something. Where just cause things are getting tough, you don't give up. You tough it out, work through it and push on. I have had my moments in our marriage where I felt distant from my W. I have had moments where I was not sure if I was happy. But I DID NOT go get involved with someone else. Hell I feel guilty if I even look at someone else. That is just my little rant.
Me:44 EXW 44 Wonderful Children M11, T14 BD 6/14 OM Confirmed Divorce Final 2/25/16 "It works if you work it!"
Watching an emotionally empty woman that was in a lot of pain give herself physically to other men to feel important and attractive, well I just feel bad for her.
Make no mistake, it would be hard to get over if she wanted to R, but more because I wouldn't trust her character to behave in the future, not just because it hurt my feelings.
This is the place that I am getting to now. Even if my W wanted to R, I am not sure if I could trust her anymore. And I wouldn't want to put myself (or my kids) through this again.
Watching an emotionally empty woman that was in a lot of pain give herself physically to other men to feel important and attractive, well I just feel bad for her.
Make no mistake, it would be hard to get over if she wanted to R, but more because I wouldn't trust her character to behave in the future, not just because it hurt my feelings.
This is the place that I am getting to now. Even if my W wanted to R, I am not sure if I could trust her anymore. And I wouldn't want to put myself (or my kids) through this again.
I am also dealing with this!
Me:44 EXW 44 Wonderful Children M11, T14 BD 6/14 OM Confirmed Divorce Final 2/25/16 "It works if you work it!"
About the commitment issue, wedding vows, etc., I am going to say something that some of you may not be able to wrap your head around it. It sounds crazy even to my ears. I do not remember thinking about my marriage vows when I first compromised my behavior with my beliefs. That sounds as bad as the A, doesn't it? My mind just was not flowing in the direction of my M vows. Tragic, but true.
This may not speak for all people who have had an A. And it JMHO that unless it has become a pattern (or as we say, serial cheater), I don't think the everyday normal person in a M sets out to have an A. Especially when there is no history of the person acting in such a manner. What starts out as "harmless" flirtation (if there is such a thing), or a friendship crossing the line into an EA, I think for the most part people slide into A's. I'm not saying they can't stop themselves. But that they have already slid to the point they crave more. And that is what drives them. Wonka may have touched on this in one of her posts. Going back to the drug addict, you can tell her to look at the destruction around her, and she doesn't listen b/c the craving is her driving force.
I won't tell any LBS not to take it personally. Of course, the faithful S takes it personally. They have been betrayed! However, let me just say that no matter how bad the M, I doubt your S intentially set about to inflict you with pain by planing an A. Does it mean he/she did not take seriously the wedding vows? May be another point of discussion. For me, yes I took my vows seriously, and honored them for those years. And I have honored them since we R. But I cannot truthfully tell you I had flashes of me saying my vows when I was being drawn into my wayward behavior. ( I'll withdraw the word "drawn" b/c it sounds like no choice.) So when I entered into my wayward actions, I was responding to my needs and vulnerability, in an out of character and immoral manner. At that moment in time, all I was considering was my selfish gratification.
The subject of the vows is often mentioned by the betrayed S, and rightly so. I doubt I could ever explain how it is even possible for a person to be able to compromise those vows and be so consumed in their own desires that they do not stop to seriously consider what they vowed before God and to the their spouse. Doesn't even make sense to the logical mind, does it? Key word being logical.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I'm sure this doesn't matter, but the thing that gets to me about all these WAS is the commitment issue!! When I stood in front of God, justice of the peace and friends and family, I said " till death do us part". NOT "till I am unhappy in my marriage" or " till you don't make me happy anymore" or " till I lose my attraction to you". And so did my wife. I grew up in the ranch and cowboy life where truth and honor meant something. Where just cause things are getting tough, you don't give up. You tough it out, work through it and push on. I have had my moments in our marriage where I felt distant from my W. I have had moments where I was not sure if I was happy. But I DID NOT go get involved with someone else. Hell I feel guilty if I even look at someone else. That is just my little rant.
I remember my W telling me once that she felt strip clubs broke M vows. That she would be livid if I had gone to one on my bachelor party. Even threatened D. I didn't go to one on my bachelor party. Just a fun night out with my buddies.
After I found out about the A, she said vows are "just words". Not surprising.
It makes me sad to think that some/all of what Sandi posts is going on inside her head and I did nothing but reinforce her spiral into waywardness.
M:42 W:43 T:14 M:10 S:9 D:5 W filed 12/22/14 EA 12/31/14 PA 4/10/15 D final 5/13/15
I lean towards the perspective of Wonka and Sandi2. Infatuation/lust/limerence is such a powerful force - a riptide as Wonka wrote. It can come at a time when the spouse is very vulnerable. I remember when I met my W and felt the attraction was mutual. I lost control, more or less. All my mental energy was directed towards her. I could feel that drug. I would wake up at 5 am to love her. Combine this feeling with unhappiness in an M and you get a volatile mix. It's too much to assume that the WW should know that it's just a drug. I didn't know much of this until BD and all the reading I've done since them. Sandi2 also says she didn't know.
But the crux of the discussion is timing. We all agree that M is not a prison (well, except Zues126 and Joe406 maybe ) and that there are moments when it's acceptable to leave a bad M. What if you leave the M before the OP attraction turns into a PA because you don't want to cheat? Sounds reasonable to me.
My W had given me several clear signals that I missed. See this message that she wrote me in August, five days before meeting OM for the first time. How much more does she need to say so that it counts as the "last" message? She was ripe. I just noticed one thing in the email: "I want to dull the pain". Coincidentally, just last night, I was told that suicide hotlines are instructed to take this sentence very seriously.
I've been very critical of my WW in the last six months for leaving me, but every now and then I have these flashes that maybe I've done more for this S than I care to admit. ______________________
Zues126 and Closer2 | For me, BD was the eye opener. In fact, the moment my WW said the word "separation", the fog cleared out. The A was suspected but only discovered later and added to the pain, but did not make me more aware of my flaws.
Joe406, Leon01, Zues126 | I used to think about this a lot: If she wanted back, would I trust my WW anyway? Recently, there's been a discussion about the morals of a serial cheater on my thread #10. It made me realize that this is all a moot point, wasted energy. We will trust our WW or not based on how they return. If they haven't changed, then no. But if they had an epiphany and tell us and do all the right things (like sandi2), then yes. Until then, we don't know and shouldn't even think about it because thousands of scenarios are possible. Let's consider the M dead and focus on ourselves.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
) and that there are moments when it's acceptable to leave a bad M. What if you leave the M before the OP attraction turns into a PA because you don't want to cheat? Sounds reasonable to me.