For the LBH who has a WW Part 3

[sandi2]

Whatever you all want to discuss is fine with me, as long as we can help support each other, and learn together. My main goal is trying to help the newcomers. Hopefully, we have at least given them a lot to consider all those nights they can't sleep.

If anyone is struggling with feeling responsible for the WW's affair, or other actions, they can speak up.

Until then, I may take another turn in the topic and copy & paste a list I rapidly threw together when I sent that post to Alpha this morning. He had several questions about what to expect next from his WW, which it difficult to give a general answer. He referred to a post in the former thread where I spoke about the WW going through a process (or journey, if you prefer), and he wanted to know the steps in that process. Again, it's hard to answer that particular question without knowing more details in the stitch. In fact, it's not an unreasonable request. Just don't know that I ever thought or tried to break it down in stages. If anyone would like to share your thoughts and experiences regarding the stages or steps during their WW journey, please feel free.

It's easier, for me, to list some things the WW will need to do in order to reconcile, honestly and completely, with her H. If you see something that needs to be added, feel free.

These are in no special order.

1). Consequences! And taking a hit with hard, maybe a painful loss of some kind.
2). Realizing the connection between her decisions with the consequences/loss.
3). Accepting responsibility for her decisions...and for every loss,
and every hurt she caused those she loves and who loves her.
4). Accepting and dealing with the consequences, without blaming anyone but herself.
5). Making a conscious choice to end her wayward direction and turn around.
6). Seeking guidance and/or spiritual counsel to guide her in how to cleanse her heart of the wrong attitudes, selfcenterness, resentment, rebellion.......whatever she carries that is unhealthy.
7). To be remorseful.  If necessary, even seek spiritual help, pray, whatever......to feel remorse for the destruction her decisions and feelings has caused her H.  She has to feel true remorse in order to emotionally reconcile and heal properly.
8). To completely forgive her H for everything in the past. To release the blame,anger, and hurt she held throughout their M.
9).  To be wiling to do whatever it takes for the MR to heal.
10). To agree and cooperate with the H's choice of transparency plan (accountability), sending a NC letter, having any medical tests, ending any friendships out of his request, (and of course, any contact with OM), place of employment, giving him requested information, attending MC, or anything else the H may request in order to ensure the success of their reconciliation, and the safety of the MR.
11). Accept/agree, without resentment, that she is in no position to give her H any "conditions" to her going back into the MR.  And, to accept without resentment, that the greatest level of work in piecing the M back together, must come from her.
12). To accept that it will take time for her healthy emotions to be restored.  To realize and accept she cannot measure the success of their progress by her feelings.
13). To be informed, and accept, that she must go through withdrawals from her AP, and could experience depression. She needs to understand this is normal, and not a sign that she will have never have feelings for H.
13).  And the hardest one of all.........learn to forgive herself.

 Keep in mind, these things will not all come about at one time. Neither will she be able to know without someone guiding her.  It is really important she has help or coaching from an unbiased source who is pro-marriage and is familiar with piecing after an affair.

[MCS]

Sandi,

Thanks for this list. I see that my struggle is that I see a glimpse of one or two of these things coming from WW and then try to steamroll and try and force her to feel the other things.

To change topics slightly, From a LBS perspective, I've thought a lot of the term 'control.'

I think we all feel when we get here that that word has such a negative connotation, I believed it when my sitch was new. I've been to IC over the last 7 months and she helped me understand that this trait isn't a conscious need to suffocate or bound our spouse, but is more of a case of trying to influence someone else to try and create the outcome that we want or feel is right morally or spiritually.

To use a bad analogy, it's like taking the car keys from someone that you know is drunk. While that always seems like the right thing to do to protect that person as well as others, it is truly trying to take 'control' of a potential negative outcome. I think that us LBS instantly use that word as a major contributor of our fault and ownership of the sitch. However, as my IC has said while that may be what we feel is right for our M, our kids, our lives; LBS's need to accept that if the other person chooses to not embrace and/or consider our point of view, that by continuing to press our 'agenda' (another often misused term) it only is seen as threatening to the WW. This is often met with spew and negative connotation, even though in our hearts it's what we morally feel is the right thing to do.

I beat myself up for a couple months trying to reconcile my need of 'control' as a truly selfish act in my part, but in fact it's not. This is where I personally lean on my faith that while 'I' truly believe that R is the best thing, 'releasing control' to that Higher Power is what I needed to accept the place I'm in in my life right now,

I talked to a Pastor a few months back and he said that as long as we focus on what we feel is needed to be judged for eternal life, we cannot allow the distractions and influences of this world affect our decisions.

For me, I think this leads into the DB concept of detaching, but still caring. Working on what what we 'know' is the right thing based on our beliefs even though WW seems to push away any thoughts of it. In my case, right now it's patience in understanding that the outcome is not in my hands.

[Sotto]

Hi Sandi

That's such a useful list, and when you see it all set out in that way, you can see why this is such a long process. That shift from entitlement, self-centredness and so on, to taking responsibility is a huge one.

In your experience, does that shift just 'happen' for someone one day? Like a huge 2x4? Or do you think it's a gradual realisation? I'm talking opposite gender too here....

Thanks so much for this helpful thread. I think it's useful to have some general threads on the forum as well as our individual ones, and your advice is so useful...((Sandi))

[Joe46]

Sandi, thank you for the list. It is very useful. Very good information. Although I don't know what my future holds, I have my doubts my W will go through any of these. All these years together, my W has always struggled with admitting her faults. Or doing anything to try to repair things. I have struggled admitting my faults also. But usually I am the one that helps us make up after a argument. She could stew on things for days if you let her.

It just hit me like a 2 x 4!! By me always being the one to make up first, I was trying to control the situation. I never allowed my W to deal with what was going on herself and her emotions. I never DETACHED from the situation!! Am I correct?

[Cadet]

These are in no special order.

I think emphasis should be placed on the disclaimer at the top.

Overall I think that if you look at the stages of grief that those need to be gone through by all parties.

So the one having the affair will need to grieve the loss of the affair partner, and if they then decide to try to reconcile they must grieve the loss of the marriage before they can reconcile.

So you have Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Withdrawal, Acceptance.

Neither partner can not avoid this, nor can you press any buttons, or have any magic fixes.

This is why DB is so good, at helping us through this time period.

JMHO.

[Fogg]

This list of steps/actions a WW might need to do in order to reconcile is good to understand. What would be the difference, if any, from a WW that had an EA that didn't become physical?

[Cadet]

This list of steps/actions a WW might need to do in order to reconcile is good to understand. What would be the difference, if any, from a WW that had an EA that didn't become physical?

None except maybe the medical exam, if you really believe that it was only an EA.(not sure I would advise that you believe)

[HeavyD]

God - I just read Sandi's list and am can't see my WAW doing any of these things. In fact, she has done none of them, the affair is my fault, I am a creep, she resents my grief, I call all the shots, is angry still about an incident that happened 7 years ago, and blames me for any negative consequence that occurs due to her infidelity.

Continuing to acccept reality, have no expectations and GAL.

I just feel very very down at it today.

[Cadet]

In fact, she has done none of them, the affair is my fault, I am a creep, she resents my grief, I call all the shots, is angry still about an incident that happened 7 years ago, and blames me for any negative consequence that occurs due to her infidelity.

I will repeat what I wrote in the last thread

You know no matter what your transgressions were,
no matter how bad you messed up,

YOU did not cause the affair/infidelity!

I think most LBS's are codependent and tbh this is the
area that they need to work on the most.
Being told what to do and when to do it,
is not healthy behavior.
We are now adults and get to choose the life that we want to live.
It takes a long time to understand that.

She is telling you SCRIPT and is nowhere near ready to return.
So - YES - it is correct that she has done none of the steps.

Do you understand that?

[Sherman333]

God - I just read Sandi's list and am can't see my WAW doing any of these things. In fact, she has done none of them, the affair is my fault, I am a creep, she resents my grief, I call all the shots, is angry still about an incident that happened 7 years ago, and blames me for any negative consequence that occurs due to her infidelity.

Why are you accepting responsibility for her choices? Yes you messed up. You're human too and are working to take responsibility for what you did. She'll have to do the same.

One of the themes that's always present, the spouse that's leaving has to vilify the other spouse. Otherwise, they can't justify it in their heads. A pain in the A$$ to accept and I struggle with it A LOT. But it's part of what happens.

You can only own/control you. DB is for us that were left behind and always was. If we're not strong as individuals, then the WAS will feel they did the right thing.

Focus on small things that went well today. Some days that might just be getting up and dressed.