I've changed the title of the thread, but with the same idea. If you are a newcomer, I want to point out that the advice is geared for those who are faced with a wayward spouse. If you have not read the first thread where I tried to describe the difference in a WAS and a wayward, I encourage you to go to the link below.
In the meantime, I want to copy and paste a couple of things from the previous thread, For LBH who has a WW Part 3.
That's interesting. After BD and before I discovered DB/DR, I asked H what would need to change in order for us to get our M back on track.
He told me I would need to dress more provocatively. I told him I'm happy to dress up sometimes, but mostly I'm happy & comfortable with what I wear. I thought it was a bit bonkers at the time. But I guess the visual/sexual was very important right then.
Do you think in time WAH's start to crave the deeper emotional/family bond again? My H just seems to have gone from failing (failed?) A onto dating...
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
You asked him what he wanted, then dismissed what he said? That IS bonkers!
-PM
M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
think the DB approach for LBWs should differ slightly from the LBHs. Because the female and male dynamic is quite different.
Case in point.
For WAWs, the connection to the OM is emotional.
For WAHs, the connection is visual and sexual.
For DBing to be successful, the LBH needs to come down HARD on the WAW because the emotional allure is like a powerful riptide tearing her and the M asunder.
For DBing to be successful, the LBW needs to re-attract her WAH for men really like the chase and are visually-oriented.
Generally, your "Sandi's Rules" list applies to both sets of LBSes equally irrespective of the situation: IA, EA, PA, MLC.
Thanks so much, Wonka, and I totally agree. I have been asked a few times to give advice particularly for the LBW, but felt I probably needed to stick to an area I had personally experienced. I made a stab at trying to explain something similar to what you've said, and took nearly two pages to do a hatchet job. Just deleted the whole mess! (ha). I don't want to completely ignore any lady who may be dealing with a wayward H, and really appreciate any advice anyone gives. However, as you've said, it is different b/c of the dynamics. So if anyone should give thoughts that apply other than for the LBH who has a WW, I hope it will be noted.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
You asked him what he wanted, then dismissed what he said? That IS bonkers!
-PM
Hey, hey PM...remember Men from Mars, Women from Venus?? This is why men and women view things differently. I don't blame Toots for thinking that way because...well...she's a woman.
Do you think in time WAH's start to crave the deeper emotional/family bond again? My H just seems to have gone from failing (failed?) A onto dating...
I cannot speak to your sitch, Toots.
However, I read somewhere that men seek out sex as a way to connect with his wife emotionally whereas women need to feel emotionally connected with their man in order to enjoy sex.
For you male posters, is that ^^ sex part about right?
I want to forward a couple of lists from the other thread.
This list has some of the things the WW will need to do in order to reconcile, honestly and completely, with her H. If you see something that needs to be added, feel free.
These are in no special order.
1). Consequences! And taking a hit with hard, maybe a painful loss of some kind. 2). Realizing the connection between her decisions with the consequences/loss. 3). Accepting responsibility for her decisions...and for every loss, and every hurt she caused those she loves and who loves her. 4). Accepting and dealing with the consequences, without blaming anyone but herself. 5). Making a conscious choice to end her wayward direction and turn around. 6). Seeking guidance and/or spiritual counsel to guide her in how to cleanse her heart of the wrong attitudes, selfcenterness, resentment, rebellion.......whatever she carries that is unhealthy. 7). To be remorseful. If necessary, even seek spiritual help, pray, whatever......to feel remorse for the destruction her decisions and feelings has caused her H. She has to feel true remorse in order to emotionally reconcile and heal properly. 8). To completely forgive her H for everything in the past. To release the blame,anger, and hurt she held throughout their M. 9). To be wiling to do whatever it takes for the MR to heal. 10). To agree and cooperate with the H's choice of transparency plan (accountability), sending a NC letter, having any medical tests, ending any friendships out of his request, (and of course, any contact with OM), place of employment, giving him requested information, attending MC, or anything else the H may request in order to ensure the success of their reconciliation, and the safety of the MR. 11). Accept/agree, without resentment, that she is in no position to give her H any "conditions" to her going back into the MR. And, to accept without resentment, that the greatest level of work in piecing the M back together, must come from her. 12). To accept that it will take time for her healthy emotions to be restored. To realize and accept she cannot measure the success of their progress by her feelings. 13). To be informed, and accept, that she must go through withdrawals from her AP, and could experience depression. She needs to understand this is normal, and not a sign that she will have never have feelings for H. 13). And the hardest one of all.........learn to forgive herself.
Keep in mind, these things will not all come about at one time. Neither will she be able to know without someone guiding her. It is really important she has help or coaching from an unbiased source who is pro-marriage and is familiar with piecing after an affair.
Thank you for articulating the main point for LBHs whose WAW is in an A: stop being such a wet noodle and grab the bull by the horns from the get-go. It starts with dropping the rabid FEAR in you. Your WAW is a paper tigeress.
In summary, the action list should be something like this upon arriving at the DB forum in short order:
1-Keep DB to yourself and hide the DR book. You don't give away the playbook to the opponent. ERASE all browsing history on your computer. 2-LOSE YOUR FEAR of WAW. Reclaim your balls back from her purse. 3-Pull out the "not willing to live in an open M/no-OM boundary" script. 4-Stop sharing the same MBR with your WAW. You are not willing to share her with another man. Tell WAW that "you have decided that you prefer she sleep in another room." 5-Sex? Forget it. It all stops right now. Same as above. 6-DO NOT have convos with WAW about the OM. You are not her gay boyfriend. You are her H. Do not acknowledge or speak about the OM at all. 7- Move all of your FINANCIAL assets into a new banking account with just your name on it (no more joint $$ with WAW) and cancel joint credit cards. Be sure to inform bank officers that your WAW is not to get a loan or open a card with your name ...they must call you first to alert of this. 8-Cut off all joint cell phone plans (you are not financing W's affair by paying for her smartphone to continue conducting her A on the family's money) 9-Only pay expenses related to children (if you have any) and other praticalities 10-Consult with a Lawyer to know your rights. Go in for an informational meeting with 3 to 4 attorneys. Keep it to yourself. Knowledge is power. 11-Cancel all MC sessions. It is ineffective as long as your WAW is in an A and just going there for appearance's sake to claim that "they tried." Pshaw! 12-Don't drive or pick her up from the airport. She can figure this out herself. 12-Make your own GAL plans. Don't drop them if WAW cries to you that she needs you to "babysit" the kids or threatens you. 13-Stop going into an overdrive cleaning the house or doing the laundry. Makes you look like the gay housekeeper from La Cage aux Folles movie.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
i'd really be interested in your thoughts about the differences/similarities of behavior of a WAW and a WW. i've got the WAXW with no affair. any ideas would be greatly appreciated! still keeping up the good fight but not being pathetic/needy about it.
M40 XW35 M11 T15 S9 D5 Bomb 6/3/14 Papers del 10/3/14 D final 12/5/14
I wish I could love you and make you believe it 'Cause that's all you ever wanted From me
Thank you for articulating the main point for LBHs whose WAW is in an A: stop being such a wet noodle and grab the bull by the horns from the get-go. It starts with dropping the rabid FEAR in you. Your WAW is a paper tigeress.
In summary, the action list should be something like this upon arriving at the DB forum in short order:
1-Keep DB to yourself and hide the DR book. You don't give away the playbook to the opponent. ERASE all browsing history on your computer. 2-LOSE YOUR FEAR of WAW. Reclaim your balls back from her purse. 3-Pull out the "not willing to live in an open M/no-OM boundary" script. 4-Stop sharing the same MBR with your WAW. You are not willing to share her with another man. Tell WAW that "you have decided that you prefer she sleep in another room." 5-Sex? Forget it. It all stops right now. Same as above. 6-DO NOT have convos with WAW about the OM. You are not her gay boyfriend. You are her H. Do not acknowledge or speak about the OM at all. 7- Move all of your FINANCIAL assets into a new banking account with just your name on it (no more joint $$ with WAW) and cancel joint credit cards. Be sure to inform bank officers that your WAW is not to get a loan or open a card with your name ...they must call you first to alert of this. 8-Cut off all joint cell phone plans (you are not financing W's affair by paying for her smartphone to continue conducting her A on the family's money) 9-Only pay expenses related to children (if you have any) and other praticalities 10-Consult with a Lawyer to know your rights. Go in for an informational meeting with 3 to 4 attorneys. Keep it to yourself. Knowledge is power. 11-Cancel all MC sessions. It is ineffective as long as your WAW is in an A and just going there for appearance's sake to claim that "they tried." Pshaw! 12-Don't drive or pick her up from the airport. She can figure this out herself. 12-Make your own GAL plans. Don't drop them if WAW cries to you that she needs you to "babysit" the kids or threatens you. 13-Stop going into an overdrive cleaning the house or doing the laundry. Makes you look like the gay housekeeper from La Cage aux Folles movie. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I feel the need to qualify the above list with this caveat for LBHs:
When it comes to finances, if you have been the person who has been the sole breadwinner and handled ALL of the family's finances, you MUST be careful not to be TOO controlling here. Taking a scorched earth approach isn't the way to go about it.
If your W is a SAHM and gave you all the control of the family money such as paying bills, etc., then you will need to allow W to have some control over them. Otherwise, you'll just come across as a very vindictive and controlling angry man.
I have heard stories of some men controlling pretty much everything that goes in the house and how his wife is expected to behave/act like a Stepford Wife. If this fits your description, then the first step is to SEEK professional help for your controlling tendencies...pronto.
