EMO, BW is right. You need to really go to detachville here. There were many comments that came across judgmental, controlling, and pursuing.
Asking about the R is temperature checking and forces him to give you the most negative answer.
Telling him what you believe you should be done will come across as controlling to him right now.
Telling him you know he is depressed implies that you aren't taking his feelings very seriously because he just needs some pills and some coping strategies to be all better again.
Telling him you are trying to change, or trying to listen ISN'T change because you are trying to get him to see a positive side in you. Actions, not words will tell the story.
Initiating a hug is pursuing.
And when you zoom out you will realize that his opening statement was that he was trying to find a way to reach a settlement, and for the rest of the conversation you steered into subjects that completely invalidated his decision as you kept coming back to ways he could fix himself.
I get it. We've all been there. It's just that trying to control the way this plays out will only cause him to fight for independence more, just as pursuing leads to pulling away, and telling him you're changing is proving you're not because he feels you are trying to manipulate him still.
So I'd recommend that you read Sandi's 37 rules many times a day. Then give yourself some space from him, emotionally, physically. Work on taking care of yourself right now, and let him run him.
This is really hard to do, but it is the only way to ease your pain, and as long as you are hurting this much you will be exerting pressure on him to behave in ways that doesn't hurt you so much. If you can find some peace regardless of what he does then you can give him the freedom he needs to sort through this. And yes, there are obviously strong feelings of compassion, guilt, and even love inside of him. But you can't squeeze it out of him. Love not given freely isn't love. You need to let him walk his own path right now.
PS- this conversation isn't going to determine if you can save your R one way or another. What you do from here is much more important. He hasn't moved out, you aren't D...don't let despair or anger overpower you right now. Rise above!
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I would also recommend you read up on the effects of a sex starved marriage to men. Gan and I had a good discussion of this on her thread.
It sounds like this was one of the core issues for him in the M, yet I haven't seen you refer back to it. It doesn't seem like understanding this part of your H is the priority to you it is to him.
The reason I suggest this is because if you understand what he went through a bit more it might lead to compassion, which will help trump the anger you are dealing with. Also, it may lead to a change in how you view him which he may pick up.
It's not 100% on you to fix the M, nor is it your job to fix your H. But there is no better time to become the best person you can be. One day at a time, you can do this.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
It's not 100% on you to fix the M, nor is it your job to fix your H. But there is no better time to become the best person you can be. One day at a time, you can do this.
Hello EMO,
Everything Zues wrote in his last two posts are pure gold! I hope you follow his advice. He has helped me tremendously.
His last line, sums it all up perfectly.
I agree with him - you CAN do this.
I wish you well.
Bob
Me:55 yrs/W:51 yrs (has MS) M:14 yrs T:15 yrs No children together--3 each from previous marriages Wife Moved Out: 10/19/14 Wife Filed for Divorce: 10/20/14 Divorce Final: 10/21/15
Thank you for your support Zues126,Bob723 and BW05. I KNOW I have to detach totally physically and emotionally and yes I am aware what I am doing is controlling and the things have regressed since I had the coffee talk with my H last week. So here is an update, its a long one..
On Friday, I snooped on his ipad and found that he has been on porn sites, basically the on the morning before we met up for coffee, which might explain his behaviour - no eye contact, coldness. It was a total betrayal because he had promised me not to go on these sites when we were together particularly on the ipad our young Ds uses. That afternoon, he wanted to discuss moving out as he got a place, I validated how difficult it was for him living downstairs but I appreciated him being around for the girls. H mentioned that him staying will not change anything regarding our R. It was at this moment I viewed him differently. I told him I didn't want a reconciliation, that I know I will have no regrets on how I tried to save this marriage, that I hoped he will have no regrets 3 years down track. H didn't reply.
I then fessed up that I knew he was on anti-depressant and I said I should have been told particularly for our Ds. H laughed it off saying it was ridiculous for us to tell what meds we are on. I told him it was important because its a MH issue and its effects. He then told me his doc NEVER told him he was depressed and that the doc told him to take the pills because of how low he felt. I didn't respond because he was still in denial.
I then asked if he had been on porn sites. He said yes, that there was a period when he didnt access them and then when things got worse with us, he accessed it. I told him, he promised when we were man and wife you would stop. I asked how young were the girls he watched - he replied less than 40 years (basically 18 years old) I told him that I was going to put a filter on the internet and on his ipad. He complied with my request.
That night I asked for his help on the keywords he used to google search the sites (very vindictive of me). We argued because he could not give me specifics. I asked if he was addicted and he said NO, that he said he doesn't have a NEED to go there, it might be a habit (?). I requested for all the domain sites he has accessed and keywords used. He asked am I doing this to make him feel bad, I replied no but needed to get him to see his actions.
On Sunday night we argued again about our R, what brought us here etc. I know I shouldn't have but its all the resentment coming up and the lack of communication from him on how he is feeling. The most crucial thing he blurted out was that he was an "old, lonely and drepressed man" I said, I am glad he acknowledged he his depressed. It was a significant moment for us, I told him my gratitude list on him being a H to me. He couldn't say his to me directly and sent it by txt while I was there! So this is what he texted: "Thank you for.. putting up with me, for being the most encouraging/loyal wife possible, the most amazing mother to our beautiful Ds, being sooo supportive particularly during the more recent stressful times on work, for being so loving and cute...Theres more (?)"
I haven't responded to his text but blew any chance with my behaviour this morning. I asked if he had the domain sites and keywords. He asked that I don't discuss what is written on the page has it will give him immense stress talking about it before work. Anyhow I saw he used the search term TEEN, I told him it was inappropriate because of his occupation. We had an argument while he was in the car saying TEEN what he was looking at was 18/19 years old. He asked I hope that I don't regret what I am doing to him. I replied no, because there is no reconciliation right? He didn't reply.
As a newbie, I know my actions are wrong but the thing is in our relationship, I've felt I've compromised and supported him alot. I feel like I need to be heard by him. I've had time to look at our marriage, and yes our SL was an issue, there are annoying traits on both sides but I've always spoken up how I felt about our relationship and its frustrating that he can't or refuses to do so. Can I move on without H? I've realised I probably can.
So can any vets out there advise me on how to repair a situation before it gets worse?
Me: 39 yrs H:45 yrs M:14 years T:18 years D:10 D:6 BD: 13/04/15 S: in progress
PS. I guess I don't want to make the same mistakes again should I move into a new relationship.
Becoming a better person is my aim and I desperately want to be that person. I've ordered self-help books plus DB and DR books to get me going. I've also started to GAL - doing yoga and putting my name down to volunteer for an NGO.
Me: 39 yrs H:45 yrs M:14 years T:18 years D:10 D:6 BD: 13/04/15 S: in progress
No I don't want to put a fork into an 18 year marrigage, the reading is about separation and how it can used for self growth. I guess I am tired of being the one to "fight" for this marriage plus H keeps reiterating about no to reconciliation, even though I've told him I too am not willing to go there...
Me: 39 yrs H:45 yrs M:14 years T:18 years D:10 D:6 BD: 13/04/15 S: in progress
I do wish you the best. I'm not sure I'll have much to offer because our journeys are quite different.
If anything, maybe you should read my thread. You sound much like my STBX that ended our M with three children. She felt her spirit had been wounded and lost, she couldn't ever be the woman I wanted her to be, that I would never allow her to become the woman she wanted to be, and overall that her only shot at happiness was a path of divorce, healing, and a shot for a fresh start with someone that was a better fit. I too was depressed during the last few years of our M. I too was using porn daily, and our sex life was the biggest issue for me that lead to us not speaking for a sum of 3 years out of the last 5.
The funny part is that after I was out of that destructive marriage I was free to choose my own road. The pain intensified but the depression lessened. I realized the problems that my porn had caused and couldn't continue to do what had caused so much pain to my W in the past. I have been on these forums for an hour or so daily for the past 10 months and have gotten stronger as a father, and as a man. And I am confident that I can bring a lot to my next M. You might see a lot of your H in my early posts, and see what is possible in my later posts.
Meanwhile STBX, the one that wanted to go on her healing journey...well, it didn't work out the way she wanted.
You're you, and your H is your H. I understand that. I think the point I want to make is that on these forums we consider a M with children SACRED. We consider commitment to be unnegotiable. And we consider making lifelong decisions that bring destruction on a family based on emotions from pent up resentment, frustration, fear, or desire for greener grass to be the lure of the serpent offering the apple. Feelings like "I'll never have feelings for him again", or "He'll never understand me", or "I can't live my life like this", "It's better to be single and me than this shell I've allowed myself to become because of him", or "He's just got A/B/C personality issues and I can't fix him, I don't want that in my life"...that along with other men, other freedoms, etc...that is the lure.
I'm not suggesting you don't make changes. I think the idea of DB is to "detach", so you can stop the destructive cycle between the two of you, have some time to figure out who you are and what you want in your lives, work through those negative emotions so you're not being controlled by them...and then when you find a place where you are at peace, strong, compassionate, and maybe wiser...at that point looking back over to see if you can reconfigure a M with the man you pledged to that will allow loving feelings to regrow even stronger, deeper rooted, ready to fulfill you both, and ready to weather the ages. There is no rule that says you have to cast off your M to go on this journey, quite the contrary, DB is all for it.
I've had other women tell me not to post on their threads again. One of them has for the last six months shown no signs of moving through her anger and resentment, but is proclaiming her "freedom". So if your mind is made up and you don't wish to hear this type of talk, I get it. People want people that will support their decisions, and it is definitely yours to make. You obviously don't need my blessing to pick your road.
So I'll just say should you choose to try to take your personal growth journey within the commitment of your M let me know and I'll offer all the support I can. If not, I'll reiterate I wish you the best and I understand we're all different people and there's room for all of us on there forums. You have my prayers EMO.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
If the link below works find the post at 05/02/15 09:06 AM. Gan copied a post of mine into a quote (the second quote), then replied. We had some great follow up conversation.
Sexual differences destroy many families. I don't think that has to be the case. No matter how poorly your husband has behaved, I have done worse. Yet my behavior wasn't really me as I am now, or at my best. Some people think this means we were a 'bad fit'. I'll share another view below from another post and copy it below. Cliffnotes- your H may magically become a different person if your interactions change...
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
