EMO- you're in a spot most of us on here would be thrilled for. You are living with your spouse who obviously still has feelings for you and has expressed some openness at being willing to fix the M. There are dozens of newcomers on these forums that are walking through hell to try to reach that point and have another chance at their M.
Yet instead of being appreciative of the opportunity you have, you are furious it isn't already fixed.
How can you criticize your H's behavior when yours is no healthier? If you want him to pull himself together and act like a mature adult, don't you kind of have to walk the walk yourself?
You may be separated soon and divorcing not much further down the road, and for the rest of your life you will wonder if it could've worked had you done things differently.
I think you are in a spot to save your M, AND change the dynamic to make it very fulfilling. But it won't happen by itself, and what you do now truly may make or break the situation. I'm not sure how many more attacks and ultimatums your R can withstand, but there is a breaking point. Ask any of us on these forums.
What I'd recommend you do right now is disconnect your behavior from your H. That's not to say detach, although that is critical. But detachment takes time, because it has to do with feelings. I'm talking BEHAVIOR. I don't care if you're detached or not, I'm saying STOP this type of negative interaction.
If you can't be warm and friendly in person, reduce contact and tell him why. "H- you're right, our interactions of late have been low quality and I have had a hard time treating you the way you deserve. We're both dealing with a lot and it's easy for us to fall into negative patterns which only opens the same wounds. I'd like to minimize our interactions for now and stick to email and text only, whether that's for a few days or a few weeks I'm not sure. But this will give us the time we need to do some thinking, give us the opportunity to hear each other without reacting, and hopefully allow us to be more positive in our communication. Regardless of what type of R we have going forward we'll need to form some new habits and break out of the old grooves. On that note feel free to email or text with what's on your mind, and I assure you I will be ready to hear what you have to say. Thank you H."
I don't know, I'm no vet and this is just an idea. But it might be a good idea to do some damage control in that way. Email can work wonders to free you from the reacting thing.
So to say it simply, commit to yourself NOT to engage with him when you're emotional, and maybe try reduced contact with some email exchanges to get healthier communication going. Before you email him back feel free to post here. Otherwise try meditating, praying, reading sandi's rules, and finding a balanced place where you are not being controlled by negative emotions. If you can do this for a short time it will get easier.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
By the way, what I didn't say in the post above is I do understand how overwhelming the pain you're in is right now. I'm sorry I didn't already offer you my goodwill. I was more focused on hoping you save your M which is critical, but I never said it was easy. Hang in there!
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
^^ Trying to talk to H when emotions are running crazy wont help you at all. You really need to find a way to avoid reacting to your emotions/feelings. They get us in trouble. You seen now what its done, learn from it and keep moving forward.
Theres no easy or quick fix to these types of things, so you will need to have patience.
Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
Zues - I KNOW my behaviour is unacceptable to me. I hate being run by my emotions, as I am a pretty relaxed kind of person. I’ve hated feeling the surge of anger, mixed with pain and grief and yes I know what I have done has or probably made my M in a more critical stage…
Me: 39 yrs H:45 yrs M:14 years T:18 years D:10 D:6 BD: 13/04/15 S: in progress
So emailed my reply to H stating how sorry I am of my behaviour and that he deserves trust and respect as he as been sincere with my feelings. Also told him communication is by text or email (thanks Zues) and brought up the issue that its his choice to move.
I have my two Ds tomorrow, extremely tired at the moment, need to do a job application plus start on an assignment on the course I'm doing.
Also did some retail therapy today to take my mind off things. H asked if I had lost weight when I briefly caught up with the Ds in the mall. My mind said "well with all this stress what would you expect!" but my mouth just softly said "yes".
Me: 39 yrs H:45 yrs M:14 years T:18 years D:10 D:6 BD: 13/04/15 S: in progress
EMO- you're in a spot most of us on here would be thrilled for. You are living with your spouse who obviously still has feelings for you and has expressed some openness at being willing to fix the M. There are dozens of newcomers on these forums that are walking through hell to try to reach that point and have another chance at their M.
Yet instead of being appreciative of the opportunity you have, you are furious it isn't already fixed.
Zues - I am confused if H does want to save this M. There has been numerous times where he has said there is no reconciliation. I know I should expect baby steps but I guess it is hard at the moment..
Me: 39 yrs H:45 yrs M:14 years T:18 years D:10 D:6 BD: 13/04/15 S: in progress
Great job EMO! Every successful interaction is a big win. Very proud of you!!!
Meanwhile, take a look at the last couple of pages of my current thread. You might find it interesting.
Tell you what EMO, I'm a guy that was much like your H. What I'm about to say is counter to every DB principle, but there are probably some magic words that would get him to come crawling back to you and trying to do everything he could to live up to your standards.
Look at him as a dog that was so hungry he ate food off the counter. No, dogs shouldn't eat off your counter. But when he's starving it's not fair to yell at him. Now, after reading my thread you will see what he is starving for is not all your fault. He's all twisted up. But he feels like you'll never approve of him, accept him, understand him, forgive him, or satisfy him. And every time you blast him for his behavior (be it porn, eyeballing young women, etc) he feels that you're attacking him personally, because his behavior is tied to his needs, and he feels like you're saying there's something wrong with the needs he has.
Before I go further I'm not suggesting you email him the following...only that I would expect him to be putty in your hands if you did. I tell you this because I want you to be accountable for how much you, as a woman, can influence the dynamic.
"H, I'm sorry our M has gone so far off track. It's caused us both a lot of pain. Though this current breakdown has been very difficult, it has opened my eyes to some things that should have been addressed a long time ago. First of all, I have come to understand how much you mean to me. You have always been loyal, responsible, and dedicated, even when your own needs weren't being met and you were suffering because of it. When I talk to my girlfriends I've always told them how lucky I am to have a guy like you, but I never really showed you how I felt in the right ways.
It's true that porn has been a divisive issue, but I don't think it has to spell the end of our M. I have come to understand much more about what is so compelling about porn, and why it is so hard to let go. What I've learned is that it can be used to meet not just physical needs such as release, but emotional needs such as being understood and approved of. It's a safe spot where you can be open and explore your sexuality with a guarantee not to be rejected, but instead to be fulfilled. Given the lack of understanding and fulfillment in our M I can see I contributed to an environment that made this lure seemingly irresistible.
H, I'm not prepared to be in an M with long term daily porn use. That said, I understand you would need much, much more from our M to be able to trust that you could be satisfied and be able to make (or keep) a promise around that subject. I don't want to set you up for failure, your my H, I love you, and I would love to support you while you take steps to grow stronger. If that means we go to M counseling, a retreat, etc, I'm willing to hold your hand and walk by your side.
And I'm willing to be open to hearing what you'd need from me to be fulfilled in our M. And that's an invitation. If this sounds appealing to you, feel free to stop up to the bedroom and let me show you how understanding I can be of what a man needs. Maybe we should take advantage of the marital vows that say "from this day forward". And what better way to start that than with a second honeymoon? "
EMO- as some vets, I don't know anymore, this is so different from DBing that I'm not sure it's a good idea. All I know is that if my W had written this letter to me I would've walked on fire for her. It gives him hope that you can see him in a positive light. It is validating of who he is and what he needs. And while it states a boundary, it offers a promise of a loving, supporting, and devoted W. One that is willing to be his temptress. Finally, the invite is powerful because you're promising not to reject him which, combined with the words you wrote which are all about approval/appreciation/validation which are powerful aphrodisiacs to a man, so he can trust coming to you with his love and not fearing rejection. You two could ML passionately, hold each other, make each other feel understood...then it would just require LOTS of aftermath with some joint counseling, etc. But I would be surprised if he didn't keep walking a positive trail if you kept rereading this letter to yourself and acting it out with him.
Vets, feel free to contradict. I am speaking as a carbon copy of her last H and not as a DB member. Please advise.
Last edited by Zues126; 05/16/1512:48 PM.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I am unsure if he is a daily user, perhaps he is and not admitting. I think it is too soon to send such an email after last night row plus I think an email like that would stress him out. He told me last night that he can't talk about our sitch because its too stressful for him. So I have to back off and see if he opens up ( part of me hopes so but the other part of me says its just too hard for him)
He replied to my email with a "thank you W", at least he replied.
Your suggestion is very different to DB rules and the difference between my H and yourself is that you've acknowledged your actions to your sitch, my H has not figured out WHY that passion disappeared - was it porn (who knows he had to speak to his counsellor to get an understanding), perhaps its because his depressed or perhaps its the anxiety/stress of everything including our SL.
The thing is I can see where I went wrong: I put too much pressure on him to solve the issue I should have been more proactive I should have opened up more about my desires (rather than wait for him..) I should have not been judgmental on him when I first discovered porn and yeah I should have been more appreciative of him in general..
Me: 39 yrs H:45 yrs M:14 years T:18 years D:10 D:6 BD: 13/04/15 S: in progress
Agreed with not sending it...hopefully you'll reread it a few times so you have some healing words in your heart for when they may be appropriate.
I like your likst. I would add "understanding his desires and validating them" as an addition for the TOP of the list. I'm not defending porn as a behavior, but there is a reason that it is one of the biggest industries in the world. There is a reason that sex is one of the biggest marriage breakers. If you read my exchange with gan from her last thread you'll know I said I feel it's importance was underestimated by a factor of 10 or 100. I told this to BW once- I'd encourage you to go to the 'sex starved marriage' section of these forums and spend a little time DAILY reading from men that have posted there.
With all of this said you're doing a great job today making positive interactions, being low key, and focusing on yourself. Don't worry, there will be opportunities for you to speak your own voice as well. Be patient and keep trucking EMO!
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
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