A new thread - My W's OW, the Predator

[Vanilla]

Dif

Respond if it is best for you, don't if it's not. Do what is best for you and not to have an affect on WW.

Admin always needs a basic response.

I think you are doing pretty well considering the scuzzy OP.

V

[DifRent]

The classic mistake that LBS make is "if I go too dark, they will really stop the pursuit." Heck we all think that way. Sometimes doing nothing is the best answer.

Yeah Heavy... and I keep wondering that, too. Might be true, but again, my DB coach doesn't believe that going dark is the answer as long as we are tethered and technically in the same house.

So I feel like I need to at least acknowledge her. And I did, with a text that said work has been crazy, I'm busy this weekend, maybe we can connect on Sunday... but if not, it will be a while before I'm available. No response yet, but the fact is... I'm detached from the outcome of this text. No expectations. If she responds, fine. If not, fine. Not expecting her to. Don't like who she is right now anyway, so... it's a phantom woman I love and want to hear from. Such long odds all over the place.

As far as the kids are concerned... it's funny. She LOVED them, really... still does somewhere deep inside, I'm sure. Had some concerns and criticisms over the past few years, of course. But last year, she was in Afghanistan for her 40th birthday. I was bummed about this, as I had plans to throw her a big party that day with friends from all around the world. It wasn't to be, so instead, I asked all those friends to write her letters, and that was to be my gift to her. So many beautiful letters... and this one, from my younger son, almost 17 at the time, was perhaps my favorite:

"Dear E,

"Over the first 12 years of my life, I saw my mom go through some bad relationships. Not a lot, but the one with my dad was really rough. And then two women who would take advantage of her, take her money, treat her like crap, and play with her heart. Those relationships didn't affect us much other than the fact that our mom was obviously hurt, but one verbally abused us. I got to dreading any new relationship my mother would find herself in.

"This trend, of course, ended once you showed up. Not only have you taken care of my mom, but you have also taken care of S20 and me and treated us as if we were your own kids no questions asked. Ever since we’ve met you, you have been here for us, taken care of us, and loved us unconditionally (you even tried to teach me boxing, however short-lived that may have been).

"All I ask for is to have someone that will love and take care of my mother, but you go above and beyond. And for that, I love you with all my heart and hope you can return from Afghanistan as soon as possible.

"Love,
S18

My mom reminded me of this letter last week. When I read it again, it brought me to tears.

Sigh.

Anyway... I have already made peace with the fact that my W has a lot of things going on with her new apartment and the OW's new house this and next month. A lot of busyness, and lot of "happiness." This will go on for quite some time. I fear, as you imply, Heavy, that the more I back off, and the more she gets enmeshed in all this, the worse my chances are for ever getting to the point of reconciliation. I know I need to stay the course and become a better version of the woman she left who, frankly, wasn't so bad to begin with. But can I compete? She is becoming so entangled with this woman now. Every day I feel like I'm losing that battle, even as I fight to just become a better me.

Wish I could buy you that drink too, Heavy. I think we'd be good friends.

[HeavyD]

Diff - if ever on West Coast, I will buy you a drink!

[DifRent]

Ah... your location must not be Rhode Island then? I'm in North Carolina, but I have family in California. One of these days...

[DifRent]

So, after taking a week "off" from the boards (ha, I know I've popped in here and there), I'm back. Wanted to share some new/old things.

Whilst looking for something else entirely in the joint business account related to a property we own, I stumbled upon two even earlier emails the OW had sent to my W - and wow. If I thought she was a predator before, now I see how she cleared the path - and how she did so even after my W had told her (it seems in good and warm terms) how she and I fell in love.

Any of you who've had your partners poached, perhaps you haven't had such a black and white, up close glimpse as to how the OP did it, but there might be common themes here. You all tell me if this email, replete with its seventh grade angst and camping trip drama, isn't the most agenda-laden inappropriate thing to send to someone in a committed lifelong relationship whom you have just hired as your realtor and "befriended" all of three weeks prior...
_________________________________________________________

I’m a believer in total honesty, even and especially when it is hard! When I find myself withholding something or avoiding a conversation, I now know that the need to have the hard conversation won’t magically go away – and the longer I wait, the harder it gets.

So… about the camping this weekend.

I have been so excited about meeting you and our instant connection and friendship. You bring out the parts of me that help me feel good about myself. The minute I saw you, I was drawn to get to know you. You fill a room, E, in a good way. Your amazing story combined with your incredible power are magnetic. I seldom meet someone with such unlimited potential and who will undoubtedly continue to lead an amazing and interesting life.

So any opportunity to get to know you better, I blurt out with excitement! And in our travels ALL over Raleigh, I’ve heard about how Dif and you met and fell in love, so I want to get to know her as well! She must be special to have attracted you!

I haven’t been to this camping event before, but have no doubt it will be an incredible experience and I look forward to sharing much of it with you – and whatever parts with Dif that she can also participate in. There is also another element about camping this weekend I want to be straight up honest about. It will reveal my less secure side.

These women that I am camping with this weekend are women that I have admired for years. I’ve heard about their annual weekend of dancing, camping and dare I say drinking for a few years now and always longed to be invited. This year I got up the courage to ask my closest friend in that group, K, if I could come. I now get the sense that I haven’t been asked in the past because they assumed L would also want to come and she can be a bit much at times. She doesn’t have the best boundaries. So I asked K and had her ask the other women if I could join and got yes!

In my excitement about meeting you and wanting to share neat experiences with you, I invited you and Dif to not only come to this event, but also camp with me. Even though the tent is mine and there is space, it wasn’t my place to invite anyone to join a group I myself am just a newcomer too. I’ve been torn with struggle about what to do about this ever since!!! I WANT to camp with you and know we will be great camping buddies, but my first year joining these ladies on their established camping ritual is not the right time to invite you. I was out of line doing that and am sorry I did that, creating this very awkward situation.

Would you be terribly upset to bring your own tent and camp separately? I will help you find a spot and setup, hopefully nearby! If you have the tent, I have absolutely everything else you need to camp: sleeping bag, sleeping pad, lantern, cookstove, food… I don’t anticipate ANY of us will spend much time at campsites, and instead all be together in the milieu of families enjoying music on the different stages. I know they will love you!! But the invitation to join their campsite really belongs to them, not me.

I feel I have really disappointed you and am very sorry!! These are welcoming and very accomplished women and you will love them. I am the one who screwed up here. I strongly considered not camping with them, but that too feels rude. These are wonderful women and I don’t want to alienate them either. I decided it was best to honor my first commitment and just confess my screw up to you.

We can talk tonight (at the "inspirational video club" she hosted at her house), but I felt more comfortable writing you first. You will find that with difficult conversations, I can become a deer in headlights – struggling to find my words and anxious. So writing seemed the right thing to do.

I’m still excited about spending the weekend enjoying the music every day with you!!

OW
_________________________________________________________

Have to give it to the OW... she's a master. And with the next email, sent the very next day, she really steps up her game...

[DifRent]

The W and I were at the OW's house the night that first email was sent for her "inspirational video club." (Wasn't very inspiring, I have to say.) I had dropped my W off early as I had a board meeting to attend, and I came back a little later. I guess while I was gone, they talked about... things. Now that I think about it, my W did seem a bit distracted on the drive home.

So the next morning, this email hit the inbox:
________________________________________________

We were meant to meet! No matter what does or doesn’t happen in the future, I feel like we have triggered positive things in each other. Only you can say what those positive things are for you, but from where I sit, you are asking yourself important questions that maybe weren’t consciously weighing on you as much as they are now. (I love how she says "only you can say what those 'positive' things are," then tells her what those things are.)

I know it is confusing and definitely throwing you off your confident feet, but this is good! You are at a crossroads and you can’t go backward. The future will be different now…either a renewed relationship with Dif or letting that go. Either way, awesome E is asking E more fervently what awesome life she wants going forward: what to let go of, what to change and what to add.

For me? I feel rejuvenated! I have been coming out of a valley of darkness and more consciously creating my new life – not defined by my role as Mother, partner, caregiver, breadwinner. I was already feeling good about the changes I was making and the people I was attracting into my life, but NOW, I feel energized to step up my game! I am capable of more! I was starting to grow older instead of grow younger, and I believe it is a choice! And that someone as wonderful as you shows any interest in me makes me believe anything is possible!

So here is what I think. We each are feeling tapped on the shoulder by the universe to wake up and even more consciously create our lives. Your focus may be related to your life with Dif and the boys. My focus is to get healthier so I can experience new people, places and adventures…and find a new home. So individually, we each have a focus that was maybe spotlighted by meeting each other, but actually isn’t about the other. Make any decisions about Dif without me in a possible future relationship. And I need to get healthier with dreams of adventures without your sharing them with me the reason I am getting healthier.

There is no time frame, E.
If we never meet again, you have already blessed me!
If we become dear friends, my life will be richer.
If we become lovers at some point, it will be rooted in a love that has been patient and kind.

And so, thank you for your courage last night! We both know each other’s feelings, but the present moment is about friendship. I am able to focus on that and not let things be awkward. I hope you are too!

We rock as women! Get ready for a fun weekend painting my deck!
OW
_____________________________________________________

("No time frame, take your time... well, a few weeks, maybe. We'll talk again after the camping trip...") Lord have mercy...

[Zues126]

OW didn't really do anything wrong or inappropriate...once you accept the premise that M's can be dissolved when they are inconvenient, that feelings and selfishness are a good compass to steer your life by, and that family can be redefined arbitrarily and everyone is resilient.

This is what grows in a garden with no foundation of commitment, character, and without putting God ahead of personal selfishness.

Yes, Dif, I'm not surprised, I'm not even angered, but it's painful to see people choose to deface the purity of a real committed relationship.

The hard part is that it doesn't always come around. This isn't a Disney movie. You keep thinking you're the 'good guy' and that because of that you'll win in the end. Look- life isn't fair. The reality is that you may never R. WW and OW may end up together...and they may even both learn from this experience and end up having a good relationship. They both might grow and change and mature, but only a few years too late for you to save your M. And there might not be a hell they burn in because of their sins or lack of faith.

So, putting aside what they're doing for a minute- can you accept that reality? I think before you can detach and start moving forward you have to, because it still seems to me you are waiting around for WW. As I've said...you can't expect her to have the strength to let go of OW if you can't muster the strength to let go of WW.

[Sotto]

Diff, I agree with what Zues said. But also, I ask myself whether it is helping you move forward reading all of this stuff? How is closely monitoring communications between them helping you? I don't think it is, and I would love to see you let go of looking at what they write to each other and move forward yourself. I think that would be a healthier approach and may help you better detach.

Yes, I guess we can all sit on the sidelines and comment about what they say to each other. And perhaps that may help you feel better, but I agree with Zues - if that keeps you stick as the 'good guy' and they the 'bad' - it isn't helping you grow IMHO.

I would also question the wisdom of posting exactly what has been written, given recent developments with Matt and his W. My advice would be to always paraphrase. I truly don't mean to post anything hurtful and I hop this doesn't come across in that way. But I hope you will decide to do the healthiest thing for you in these difficult circumstances.

Take care Diff :-)

[HeavyD]

Barf on the emails. Nauseating and juvenile for sure.

However, just delete them and keep moving forward. You already know what you need to know. By keep reading them, it will only bring you down. Really, I know this from personal experience.

They are not worthy of your time to read them. Delete it for the garbage it is. You are better than what is being served up here. Don't give it any more head space. I know it is hard.

Move on to a better place.

Onward Diff!

[DifRent]

Zues and Toots... thanks for your thoughts and your support, as always. I think I really just posted these emails because it's part of my story - like a flashback that provides even more context. I've only seen a handful of emails - and I find them enlightening more than disturbing. Had I seen them two months ago? They'd have ripped me apart. W and OW are together all the time now, so I'm sure there's no need for them to email each other much.

At the same time, it might seem from what I post on this board that I'm waiting around, but I'm really not. It's just that this board serves two purposes for me: one, it's where I can vent. I've decided that in my real life, I'm done talking about all this. This past week I was detached from the situation and from her more than ever, even as she called and pursued. And two: this is where I keep hope alive. In my real world, no one thinks R is possible, and I struggle more to imagine R as a possibility than I do to accept it's likely not going to happen.

I've not only accepted that my W might well move on and make a whole new life with the OW, but that's exactly what she's doing at the moment. I hate it, but I can't deny it. I don't see the OW as a "bad guy" or someone who deserves hell. I see her for what she is: a lonely relationship poacher who took advantage of my W, and I am so disappointed in my W who let herself be swayed so easily. I see myself as terribly wronged but also as someone who clearly should have done more to make our relationship impervious to poaching. I didn't, and I regret that. And I know I have a lot of work to do on myself ahead.

Have I let WW go? No. I can't say I completely have. I'm not even three months into this mess. I know I have to, and I know I will. But for now, letting her go is a process, not an action. I'm moving through it... with the help of all of you. Really, these emails weren't a setback. It actually helps me to confirm what I've believed all along.

As for WW discovering this? Well... I know what happened to Matt was terrible. But I can't see any discovery of this board being the thing that derails any potential R. At this point, it's a long shot anyway. I kind of don't care if she finds this. That's a form of detachment, eh?