Having conversations Not escalate, is a very worthy goal and it IS within your control b/c you can end the conversation if it takes a nosedive.
Say something along the lines of "let's table this discussion for when we are both calm" and or, if you feel attacked, say so.
"W, I feel attacked now. That's not productive so let's table this til we both can speak AND hear each other without attacking." But once you say that, you need to LEAVE the area (unless she apologizes. But don't wait for that).
Edit - Reopening this thread and I will be deleting more of the BUMP posts - MS Wonka lets get some more good stuff in here..... Cadet
Last edited by Cadet; 05/13/1503:03 PM. Reason: message
Could/would it be possible for you to restore the most recent posts? I think it was in answer to Pyrite's questions that myself and 25 posted immediately thereafter. I think it makes sense to leave posters's questions alone and stand as it is. This type of questions and responses are helpful to newbies to understand content and context better as they relate to validation approaches.
Will you be a dear and please do it for me? mwah
Edit - Maybe it is on Pyrites thread. I will look. I did not delete anything except for 37 "Bumps" - Cadet
Last edited by Cadet; 05/20/1508:47 PM. Reason: message
I owe you an apology and offering you a shot of your favorite Scotch. Pryite posted in my other thread...the Boundaries one. Oops! Must be old age creeping up to me these days.
Okay Wonka... I have read this several times now. I vow to either validate or STFU from now on. REALLY going to work at this... and this is a fantastic thread, by the way.
Me: 46 Her: 41 M: 5.5 yrs / S: 20, 18 3/26 W and I meet OW BD: 5/2/2015, she takes off ring W goes to stay with OW 6/26 NC: 9/5 Both moved out: 10/16 I take off my ring and feel... healed: 10/19
How does an LBS validate a WW if we are currently going dark/dim? I've seen contradictory information on this subject. On one hand, I've seen DB'ing experts like Sandi say that LBS's should not be friends with WW's. Polite, yes. Friends, no.
But aren't validation phrases like "I'm sure you'll ace that important test. You'll do great!" and "Way to go" just giving her the false impression that I'm OK with being her friend and not her H? Seems weak to me.
What is the proper balance of validating but not being stuck in the "friend zone"?
Me: 34 W: 30 Together: 11 years Married: 4 years BD: 4/2014 A Discovered: 5/2014 WW Filed: 7/2014 Separated: 8/2014 Divorced: 10/2015
My WW was very deceptive in the beginning. Of course she lied to me about her A when I confronted her, but I soon realized the truth weeks later. Yep, she blamed me for not caring about her feelings enough and not supporting her. There's some truth to that and I acknowledge that but I'm not responsible for her A. Nevertheless, she has not backed down on the D. We will probably be D's in a month or two.
She has 'said' she is sorry and 'said' she has remorse but I don't see it in her actions. She has shown zero concern for the pain she has caused me. It's all about her and her feelings right now. So yeah, like you, I struggle with being friendly, even polite.
I even brought up the remorse thing one time in conversation and she told me she was showing "her type of remorse".
It's not the type of remorse that I need her to show. I wonder every day what happened to my sweet, loving wife.
Me: 34 W: 30 Together: 11 years Married: 4 years BD: 4/2014 A Discovered: 5/2014 WW Filed: 7/2014 Separated: 8/2014 Divorced: 10/2015
Our sweet loving wives have gone wayward. That means they no longer care about anything other than themselves. Nothing will stop them for doing what they want, which means stepping outside of the marriage. Split up the family? Not a big deal, ruin the kids lives and grandkids, no problem, destroy your loving spouse, it happens - because it is all about them. Lies after lies on top of lies and then they are so mean about it to boot.
Ain't life grand? It's the pits sometimes.
However not all gloom and doom - we can get past the disappointment and grief and stand with our heads up. We can forgive, move forward and do the right thing. We will be resilient and humble and carry on. Who knows what the future holds for any of us - including our wayward wives. We will keep on doing the right thing even though we may lose our marriages.
Maybe like many others I find validating in my current circumstance very difficult.
I really only talk to her over the phone if she calls for some reason to talk about the girls or something.
In these cases I am methodical and really thinking about not arguing and trying to validate. I don't apologize but instead say things like, "I can see how it would seem that way." etc.
The problem, and this might tie into Sandi's rule #19
(19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.)
is that my WAW says I sound odd or strange. She "wishes I'd just be honest or talk normally."
So I am obviously learning and trying, but it's not coming across in the way it needs to. When I did do it and she said that I sounded odd, I said, "I can only be who I am now or who I want to be, not who I was in the past." Was that the wrong thing to say?
As I continued validating (or what I thought was validating) she seemed to get more emotional. "Do you know how many years I wanted to have a calm conversation?" "Why now? Why when it's too late?" I said I guess I never had a big catalyst before.
So I have my first official mediation meeting in three hours. I am already feeling the butterflies.
Any opinions and or advice anyone wants to offer?
I am planning to stand up for what I need to, be polite but strong, and try to work. I'm in effect giving her what she wants in terms of the divorcing progress, but I am going to stand up for what I believe is mine and my daughter's right.
M36,W34 T18 years M9 years D3,D6 W "doesn't want to be married anymore"6/14/15 ILYBNILWY6/2015 W moves to parents house 6/30/15 W removes wedding band 7/3/15 My ring back on 8/8/15 Served 8/11/2015.
Sorry to be late here as I just saw this. I will attempt to answer your questions in the best way I can that will make things, hopefully, more clearer for you.
Validating is just acknowledgement of a person's feelings about a particular matter or situation that is present which doesn't mean you have to AGREE to it all the time. It simply means that you are witnessing the person's thoughts/feelings and you hear them. Be genuine when you do any validation. Otherwise, it just comes out like it's a robocall.
In fact, I'll illustrate a perfect DBing example the other day with a friend later on in this post. More later.
I would like to address some of the areas that you feel are quite confusing as how it lines up with DBing principles.
(19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.)
What Sandi is trying to point out in rule #19 is that the LBS needs to get off the pity couch and seize life by their hands. Their happiness is not tied to the WAS. No. You are responsible for your own happiness so you need to stop being needy and clingy because those are not very attractive qualities at all. It's a real downer to be around someone with a very dark cloud around them all mopey.
What Sandi meant by "faking it" because your spouse will see through it is behaving like a plastic Ken doll with a plastic smile and just going through the motions just to give out the appearance of being happy. That is more like a game show host...."hey, look at me! I am the Fun Factory...watch me." Plllft! When one is engaged in GAL activities or being okay with doing some solo activities, then the obsessive thoughts about the WAS fades away because you are TOO busy having fun. You are involved in the activity that absorbs your attention and then you find yourself smiling, laughing, and joking around. That is the key right there.
As I continued validating (or what I thought was validating) she seemed to get more emotional. "Do you know how many years I wanted to have a calm conversation?" "Why now? Why when it's too late?" I said I guess I never had a big catalyst before.
^^ that right there is the key to being truly heard. We all have an intrinsic need to be heard by loved ones...especially the spouse because it is the glue that really bonds a couple at the emotional level. It seems that, from what W said up there, that you two have had some Bickerson's bickering in the M relationship....true? If you say "yes", then I'd suggest that you find better ways of communicating that is respectful and honors the other person's point of view.
Any secret weapons? Phrases? Attitudes? Ideas?
There are no secret weapons or magic bullets here. However, you can learn how to communicate and listen better. In fact, I've made some book recommendations to PigPen's thread here in Newcomer's yesterday. You might want to check them out.
Now you are all curious about my validation techniques with a friend recently...right? Alrighty...here we go. It was a brief text exchange. Paraphrasing here.
Friend: Just received a notice that we are to do OT for 8 weeks. Wonka: OT for 8 weeks??!!! What a grindstone. Company A is really whipping you guys Friend: Yeah, it's gonna kill me, but Daughter has $4K worth of dental appts Wonka: $4K??! Dang..that is a lot of $$ for some pearly work. Hope her dad contributes here Friend: He said he would help Wonka: Phew! Glad to hear this
Notice that I did not offer advice or try to fix her problems. That is what validation is...acknowledging her frustrations and struggles. I don't get sucked in or get involved.
