Oh boy NH, there's a significant weight of vet opinion here. And you are in the midst of it saying yes, but don't you think??
As I see it, the bottom line is you are choosing to remain in a M where your W gets to see, kiss and possibly have S with someone else.
Of course it's up to you what you do. But in my sitch it's a big thing I have learned. I lived like that once - before BD. I don't want to live like that again. Oh no, that's not how I want my life to be.
So, how do you want your life to be & what do you plan to do about it? Because I think if you do nothing, your L will carry on as it is.
Also, please don't worry about what your W thinks or if she blames you. If you choose to cheat and carry on cheating, there are implications, you know?
Do what a man with no fear and tons of self respect would do....
Take care - we are all here to help xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Why is everyone on this thread so convinced that she's playing me?
B/c we can see the forest.
In the very beginning of your stitch, I thought, "This guy is going to make it. He's going to show how it's done". You started posting on other threads and giving excellent advice.
But your WW continued to challenge the boundaries, and when the time came for you to walk out that door......what did you do? You started all over with the same old excuses that you had been using (that's when I told you I was dizzy). I felt you had missed the right time (but that's just me). I think you knew it in your heart, but you just couldn't do it.
So, here you are in a worse shape and still using the excuse of her feeling victimized if you leave. (I think every woman here is probably thinking........"Oh yeah, the ole damsel in distress thing......... Yep, she's playing him"). Let me ask you something. Do you honestly believe your WW is an exception? Let me answer from what I see in your posts. YES! Of course you do. Every newcomer man believes his W is different from the others. She is fragile, she needs you, she'll be so distraught and feel like a victim if you leave. There is clearly something wrong with her thinking. She's messed up. . She is special b/c she is your W. She is not an exception.
Look, when we say she's playing you, that's not to mean she sits around all day plotting how she can intentionally make a fool out of you or add more pain. That is not really her focus. Her focus is the OM. Whatever happens to you is simply the result of everything else (is her WW way of thinking). The WW plots how to make contact with OM. How to get OM interested in her again........more interested in her than his W. She plots about how they can meet alone and be together intimately, without being discovered. She keeps one foot in the M for one reason......and one reason ONLY. Security!!!
Sure it is horrible for you to think your sweet little W could be this deceitful. Your denial has imprisoned you in this hellish M for how long now? I didn't see it at first, and I am certainly not experienced in the area of co-dependency, but I am wondering if that is the foundation of your fear. I think your W is plenty smart enough, and strong willed enough to survive more than you give her credit. It's you, razorback. It's you.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Why is everyone on this thread so convinced that she's playing me?
B/c we can see the forest.
In the very beginning of your stitch, I thought, "This guy is going to make it. He's going to show how it's done". You started posting on other threads and giving excellent advice.
But your WW continued to challenge the boundaries, and when the time came for you to walk out that door......what did you do? You started all over with the same old excuses that you had been using (that's when I told you I was dizzy). I felt you had missed the right time (but that's just me). I think you knew it in your heart, but you just couldn't do it.
So, here you are in a worse shape and still using the excuse of her feeling victimized if you leave. (I think every woman here is probably thinking........"Oh yeah, the ole damsel in distress thing......... Yep, she's playing him"). Let me ask you something. Do you honestly believe your WW is an exception? Let me answer from what I see in your posts. YES! Of course you do. Every newcomer man believes his W is different from the others. She is fragile, she needs you, she'll be so distraught and feel like a victim if you leave. There is clearly something wrong with her thinking. She's messed up. . She is special b/c she is your W. She is not an exception.
Look, when we say she's playing you, that's not to mean she sits around all day plotting how she can intentionally make a fool out of you or add more pain. That is not really her focus. Her focus is the OM. Whatever happens to you is simply the result of everything else (is her WW way of thinking). The WW plots how to make contact with OM. How to get OM interested in her again........more interested in her than his W. She plots about how they can meet alone and be together intimately, without being discovered. She keeps one foot in the M for one reason......and one reason ONLY. Security!!!
Sure it is horrible for you to think your sweet little W could be this deceitful. Your denial has imprisoned you in this hellish M for how long now? I didn't see it at first, and I am certainly not experienced in the area of co-dependency, but I am wondering if that is the foundation of your fear. I think your W is plenty smart enough, and strong willed enough to survive more than you give her credit. It's you, razorback. It's you.
Reading your posts, the BC pills, the OM, all the 'she is Bottom line, you are the one living like this, in an open marriage and it frustrates you ... you are scared of actually telling her ENOUGH and walking, heck I would bet a paycheck she would actually respect you for that move.
I think that's a concept I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around...that she'd respect me for making a decision to walk away. I think she'd just see it as further victimization...that I messed up her life and then just washed my hands and walked away...
Not that I think she's right, just I think that's how it would play.
So, I think you're both guilty of victimization. Your victimization just comes in a different form. Yours may not appear as victimization, because it isn't what society thinks of when they think victim. But I see it. Ialso agree with Sandi2 and see alot of co-dependency.
I also see two people, who honestly, are afraid of being the bad guy and pulling the plug on the marriage. Currently, the marriage isn't working for either one of you, but instead of having that conversation and separating, she wants to shriek and spew, and you want to have alot of talks.
I don't think she will ever leave because, honestly, why would she? With you, she gets to work her part time (?) job which facilitates her seeing the OM. She gets to have fantasies about the OM, kiss him, pine away from him on FB, and she has a husband who is sitting there and accepting all of the [censored] that she spews. Who continues to provide a roof over her head, and food in her stomach and INTERNET ACCESS to pine away over OM on FB. Who continues to sit and be cuckold. And the moment you talk (and key work here, talk) about it not working, leaving, etc - she knows what button to push. It's not trying hard enough/NH's parents were mean to me/abandoning me/i'm trying hard but I need closure/etc. etc.
And then you accept the blame and rationalize her behavior and wait. Seemingly for her to wake up. Or to realize what a great catch you are. Or for whatever. And she's not going to.
Because frankly, you're the little boy who cried wolf.
(and I mean that as respectfully as possible)
It's all talk and no action. You've been advised to leave several times. If only for a night. But you stay. And I don't know if it's out of fear, or stubbornness, or what.
But there comes a point where you have to back up your words with actions. As a female, I can tell you that if I were your W, and you were my H and were standing by me through all this -- including the BC BS? I would have no respect for you. Because it would appear to me that you had no self respect. I wouldn't want a man who would let me run all over him. Because I find it to be weak and unattractive. And I'm betting that's how your wife feels. Why she can't get back that intimacy.
I really like you NH. I think you're a good guy - and I believe you do have the power to save your marriage, or to become a great partner for someone in the future. But you have to realize that your W is in fact playing you. And that you are facilitating the ability for her to do so. I know it's hard to view your W has someone who is sitting there, scheming and thinking, "oh, this would be a great way to play NH." I don't think it's a calculated thing. However, one can still play others without the intent to do so. I think it's human nature.
--- At the end of the day - you have to honor yourself and take the journey that you feel comfortable with. It's easy for us to give advice because we don't live it and we aren't privy to your exact emotions.
I believe that you have to do what you can live with, and what you are comfortable with.
I hope you find the strength and clarity you need - for whatever path you take.
M:32,H 32 T:10, M5 BD/H Move Out: 9/2014 - extreme anger H Mental Illness Diagnosis: 4/15 Served D Papers: 10/15 Divorced: 11/15
Reading your posts, the BC pills, the OM, all the 'she is Bottom line, you are the one living like this, in an open marriage and it frustrates you ... you are scared of actually telling her ENOUGH and walking, heck I would bet a paycheck she would actually respect you for that move.
I think that's a concept I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around...that she'd respect me for making a decision to walk away. I think she'd just see it as further victimization...that I messed up her life and then just washed my hands and walked away...
Not that I think she's right, just I think that's how it would play.
So, I think you're both guilty of victimization. Your victimization just comes in a different form. Yours may not appear as victimization, because it isn't what society thinks of when they think victim. But I see it. Ialso agree with Sandi2 and see alot of co-dependency.
I also see two people, who honestly, are afraid of being the bad guy and pulling the plug on the marriage. Currently, the marriage isn't working for either one of you, but instead of having that conversation and separating, she wants to shriek and spew, and you want to have alot of talks.
I don't think she will ever leave because, honestly, why would she? With you, she gets to work her part time (?) job which facilitates her seeing the OM. She gets to have fantasies about the OM, kiss him, pine away from him on FB, and she has a husband who is sitting there and accepting all of the [censored] that she spews. Who continues to provide a roof over her head, and food in her stomach and INTERNET ACCESS to pine away over OM on FB. Who continues to sit and be cuckold. And the moment you talk (and key work here, talk) about it not working, leaving, etc - she knows what button to push. It's not trying hard enough/NH's parents were mean to me/abandoning me/i'm trying hard but I need closure/etc. etc.
And then you accept the blame and rationalize her behavior and wait. Seemingly for her to wake up. Or to realize what a great catch you are. Or for whatever. And she's not going to.
Because frankly, you're the little boy who cried wolf.
(and I mean that as respectfully as possible)
It's all talk and no action. You've been advised to leave several times. If only for a night. But you stay. And I don't know if it's out of fear, or stubbornness, or what.
But there comes a point where you have to back up your words with actions. As a female, I can tell you that if I were your W, and you were my H and were standing by me through all this -- including the BC BS? I would have no respect for you. Because it would appear to me that you had no self respect. I wouldn't want a man who would let me run all over him. Because I find it to be weak and unattractive. And I'm betting that's how your wife feels. Why she can't get back that intimacy.
I really like you NH. I think you're a good guy - and I believe you do have the power to save your marriage, or to become a great partner for someone in the future. But you have to realize that your W is in fact playing you. And that you are facilitating the ability for her to do so. I know it's hard to view your W has someone who is sitting there, scheming and thinking, "oh, this would be a great way to play NH." I don't think it's a calculated thing. However, one can still play others without the intent to do so. I think it's human nature.
--- At the end of the day - you have to honor yourself and take the journey that you feel comfortable with. It's easy for us to give advice because we don't live it and we aren't privy to your exact emotions.
I believe that you have to do what you can live with, and what you are comfortable with.
I hope you find the strength and clarity you need - for whatever path you take.
I just have to agree with what all the vets before me have said. Continued prayers for you, NH. (((NH)))
Me 52, H53 Bomb drop 9/29/2014 Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014 Marriage #2 12/31/2019 5 adult (step)daughters (3 from XH's first marriage, 2 from current H's previous relationships) 6 grandkids
NH, my thinking is OM isn't a long term solution for your W and she knows it in some part of her fog. If he were they would already be in the sunset holding hands. This is like Pinks TauC, this OM has a W and a life, possibly other OW too. Who knows?. However it is W is trying to keep her H as plan b, her reserve parachute in case the master parachute doesn't open.
You can still stand for your M and yourself.
I am sending you my strength
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 08/19/1508:00 AM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Thank you all, Sandi, V, Starsky, Dawn, Calibri....my apologies for everyone I've left out.
Wow. Brutal feedback. But I didn't see anything I disagreed with. I know it's all coming from a place of support, and I'm very appreciative.
What keeps me around? Fear is part of it, I'll cop to that. I also don't believe she is in an active A. I'm here, I can read her tone and body language. I don't think she's lying. Any A that's going on is completely in her head.
That said, the things she's doing are R killers even without an A. Basically, I'm living with a teenager. She wants to rebel against everything, whether she needs to or not. Nobody's holding her down, least of all me. She demands freedom and choice, but she doesn't make any choices. She also doesn't want to take any responsibility for her choices or actions. If her choices don't work out like she wants, It'll be my fault. She won't accept that any choice has tradeoffs and risks. Welcome to adulthood. It [censored], but we're all in the same boat.
I won't do anything until next week. OM is coming into town (way earlier than expected) and I'd like that visit to be over first. She may try to sneak off and see him anyway, but I won't hand her over on a platter.
Last edited by NH115; 08/19/1504:42 PM.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
I won't do anything until next week. OM is coming into town (way earlier than expected) and I'd like that visit to be over first. She may try to sneak off and see him anyway, but I won't hand her over on a platter.
You have this horse and cart precisely BACKWARDS, brother.
